Hill Climb Event - Car Setup Questions

[scsponger31]

I am not sure where to post this but Road Racing is the most similar?

I am going to try a my hand at a hill climb event local to my house in Idaho and have questions.

I kind of assume tire choice will be more similar to an Auto X event. I currently have three wheel and tire setups. Two with Supercar 3R's and one with Cup 2's. Thinking Cup 2's are the lesser of the evils for this event but mine have the most heat cycles of all my tires at the moment.

For suspension, do you all think I should soften it up some, compared to track events?

Any other input would be great! Looks super fun but the consequences of going off seem a little great

 

[Mistaricky]

I have never personally raced a hill climb event. However I do a lot of canyon road/ mountain driving and I love to follow hill climb racing. One of the most common things I've read is front end downforce. On high incline your front end can be very light and the rear end will have all the weight. This sets you up to under steer very easily. Which also made me realize why there are more uphill crashes in my local roads vs downhill.

 

[scsponger31]

I will potentially keep my rear wing in a more neutral position. I was half considering putting it in the most aggressive downforce position.

 

[blacksheep-1]

This is going to be interesting because it is sorta like an extended autocross. I would run the stickiest, widest legal tire you can. I assume ther eis lots of twisties?

 

[docs302]

This is going to be interesting because it is sorta like an extended autocross. I would run the stickiest, widest legal tire you can. I assume ther eis lots of twisties?

I run a few events in the SCCA- sanctioned Pennsylvania Hillclimb Assoc series. Anyone who wants to compete for the win in their class or overall runs A7s, soft slicks or any autocross compound rubber. You are running on cold tires so if they need to warm up you are lost because they never will.

FYI.....had a death in the Duryea Hillclimb in Reading, PA last weekend. It's a 130+ mph hill in my car. Fully prepped Mitsu Evo with full cage and safety gear. Unfortunately, the driver was wearing an open face helmet and no HAN's. He went off at one of the only two scary, high-speed turns. It's a blind, left kink (called "Oh shiznit" for a reason) into a very short braking area and a 180 degree turn. In my car it's 120 mph before I lift as I approach. Some try to get every last bit of speed through there and run out of talent. There is nothing but a dense forest 20 feet across from the apex. Two years ago a driver went off there and is now brain damaged and needs 24hr care. The adrenaline kick and anxiety before and during each run is a rush and nothing like open track. It's not for everyone but they are addicting.

 

[scsponger31]

This is going to be interesting because it is sorta like an extended autocross. I would run the stickiest, widest legal tire you can. I assume ther eis lots of twisties?

My Goodyears are 305 square and Cup2's are 315 square. I am not gonna spend money on another tire setup until I decide I like this hill climb thing.

The Road has 26 turns. I have not driven it yet, but it is only 20min away so I am going to drive it this weekend, possibly ride my road bike up and down it too.

 

[scsponger31]

I run a few events in the SCCA- sanctioned Pennsylvania Hillclimb Assoc series. Anyone who wants to compete for the win in their class or overall runs A7s, soft slicks or any autocross compound rubber. You are running on cold tires so if they need to warm up you are lost because they never will.

FYI.....had a death in the Duryea Hillclimb in Reading, PA last weekend. It's a 130+ mph hill in my car. Fully prepped Mitsu Evo with full cage and safety gear. Unfortunately, the driver was wearing an open face helmet and no HAN's. He went off at one of the only two scary, high-speed turns. It's a blind, left kink (called "Oh shiznit" for a reason) into a very short braking area and a 180 degree turn. In my car it's 120 mph before I lift as I approach. Some try to get every last bit of speed through there and run out of talent. There is nothing but a dense forest 20 feet across from the apex. Two years ago a driver went off there and is now brain damaged and needs 24hr care. The adrenaline kick and anxiety before and during each run is a rush and nothing like open track. It's not for everyone but they are addicting.

Not helping with the nerves! haha. I dont think I will be going 10/10ths this event. I will be running a Hans, but only have a half cage. I never really get nervous for track days (sometimes roval tracks where this is a wall) but this is definitely different! Maybe I should see if I can get a set of 200tw tires, or some V730's.

 

[docs302]

Not helping with the nerves! haha. I dont think I will be going 10/10ths this event. I will be running a Hans, but only have a half cage. I never really get nervous for track days (sometimes roval tracks where this is a wall) but this is definitely different! Maybe I should see if I can get a set of 200tw tires, or some V730's.

Sorry, not trying to turn you off to hillclimbs. They are a ton of fun and you don't have to run 10/10ths for a plastic trophy or metal plaque. I do recommend good rubber so you can at least have enough traction to get out of all of the slow turns with some punch. I am no longer able to run in my series until I get a full cage because of my times and speed. Probably as good idea anyway. You need a roll bar to qualify and that's fine to get your feet wet. If you really enjoy it and start to push it then a full cage is highly recommended.

 

[GAR944]

Back when associated with an independent Porsche workshop we would convert track spec club cars each year for Targa Tasmania to deal with the differences encountered between track days and true public road course. Consider "Targa" a massive series of hill climbs on closed public roads.
We would raise the ride height to deal with the more undulating road surface encountered, last thing you want is to hit suspension limit in either direction and bounce the car. The widest softest tyres you can find still fail to find grip when they are thrown into the air. Going for a drive to view the "track" is your best part of car setup. You need to know the "smoothness" of the surface so you can set up ride height and shocks to be more compliant to the surface but not hit bump stops or fly wheels into braking zones. The other issue, not sure if it affects your particular car, is ABS systems tend not to like tyres in the air either and while you may get off the brakes slightly to recover they can sometimes not respond as quickly causing stress at the worst possible time.
Its more be aware of how your vehicle handles bigger bumps and dips, we are spoilt on tracks knowing where every dip and curb is and what is around the next corner.

Given everyone here is a car tragic, below is a link to the trailer for a movie "Love The Beast" which is about an Australian Actor who you may have heard of, Eric Bana, and his love affair for his car and his attempts at running in Targa Tasmania.

 

[Dave_W]

I have not driven it yet, but it is only 20min away so I am going to drive it this weekend, possibly ride my road bike up and down it too.

This is going to be key to your setup. Most road courses are billiard-table smooth compared to real roads, especially in areas with freeze/thaw cycles. You'll need a suspension setup that will soak up the road imperfections without losing grip.

Treat the bike ride like a course walk in autocross - look for things like potholes, patches and other surface changes, drain grates that will keep you from tracking out to the curb on corner exits, road crown/camber that helps at apex but induces understeer on entry & exit (and weight-jacks the car as you cross the center), etc. Maybe print out a map of the course and make notes on it to study and try to memorize later - think "pace notes" on a rally stage.

Take a GoPro video from the car, close to the driver's position, and use it to learn the course. Play it back at 3x (or more) speed to get a feel for timing between turns at hillclimb speed vs legal speed.

 

[scsponger31]

Thanks All! If I remember correctly, Eric crashes his car haha.

I will definitely dial done the stiffness of the car and now I am thinking about looking for some autocross oriented tires.

Should I go for a 200TW tire? RT660? PS4S? I wish I could justify the cost for some Hoosier's.

 

[Mistaricky]

Have you considered buying tire warmers? Would be cheaper than a full set of tires. This way your rubber will be up to temp ready to go when you are next on grid.

 

[scsponger31]

Have you considered buying tire warmers? Would be cheaper than a full set of tires. This way your rubber will be up to temp ready to go when you are next on grid.

Never crossed my mind! Anyone have recommendations?

 

[docs302]

Back when associated with an independent Porsche workshop we would convert track spec club cars each year for Targa Tasmania to deal with the differences encountered between track days and true public road course. Consider "Targa" a massive series of hill climbs on closed public roads.
We would raise the ride height to deal with the more undulating road surface encountered, last thing you want is to hit suspension limit in either direction and bounce the car. The widest softest tyres you can find still fail to find grip when they are thrown into the air. Going for a drive to view the "track" is your best part of car setup. You need to know the "smoothness" of the surface so you can set up ride height and shocks to be more compliant to the surface but not hit bump stops or fly wheels into braking zones. The other issue, not sure if it affects your particular car, is ABS systems tend not to like tyres in the air either and while you may get off the brakes slightly to recover they can sometimes not respond as quickly causing stress at the worst possible time.
Its more be aware of how your vehicle handles bigger bumps and dips, we are spoilt on tracks knowing where every dip and curb is and what is around the next corner.

Given everyone here is a car tragic, below is a link to the trailer for a movie "Love The Beast" which is about an Australian Actor who you may have heard of, Eric Bana, and his love affair for his car and his attempts at running in Targa Tasmania.

Great movie! Love Eric Bana.

GAR944 makes some great points about driving the road, if possible, before you actually compete so you can get a feel for all the nuances that you don't see at speed. Getting a look at the road walking at some of the tricky areas would be even better but that's not always available or possible.

 

[docs302]

Never crossed my mind! Anyone have recommendations?

Check the rules. Never saw anyone using tire warmers in my series but I can't say for sure if they are or are not legal. What does a tire warmer set cost? I'm not sure if it's worth it. Tires will last you for a few years so invest once in sticky rubber and you are good for a while but it may not make sense if you are just dipping your toe in.

 

[scsponger31]

Check the rules. Never saw anyone using tire warmers in my series but I can't say for sure if they are or are not legal. What does a tire warmer set cost? I'm not sure if it's worth it. Tires will last you for a few years so invest once in sticky rubber and you are good for a while but it may not make sense if you are just dipping your toe in.

If I keep the car up here, a set of tires that are more auto-x oriented would not be the end of the world. It is more effort to get to a track than CA and they have a ton of auto x events.

 

[Dave_W]

If you're looking at buying sticky tires for this, check rules first. Using something like Hoosier A7s instead of one of the autocross-oriented 200 treadwear tires may move you in to a higher class. If you're going to get most of the tire use with autocross instead of hillclimb, consider you're a/x class rules. CAM limits you to 200TW, so the Hoosiers would be illegal. ESP allows any DOT tire, so the A7 is legal there.

 

[blacksheep-1]

If you're looking at buying sticky tires for this, check rules first. Using something like Hoosier A7s instead of one of the autocross-oriented 200 treadwear tires may move you in to a higher class. If you're going to get most of the tire use with autocross instead of hillclimb, consider you're a/x class rules. CAM limits you to 200TW, so the Hoosiers would be illegal. ESP allows any DOT tire, so the A7 is legal there.

FWIW the A7 was always considered an " autocross tire" the R7 was for road courses. Not sure where that came from because when I was at Phoenix we ran A7s on virtually everything. Class rules apply here, so make your decision accordingly, There is nothing you can do to improve on excellent rubber, it will mask a ton of issues, and IMO tires are the single most important thing in car handling.
Also.. the very first kart race I ran at Daytona a guy was killed, first practice, 5 minutes in, I passed the wreck. It's part of the reality of the sport, compartmentalize it and go on, or look for something else, no one will judge you on that one.

 

[scsponger31]

I did the Hill climb two weekends ago. I did medium. Was one of the faster "street" cars, but there were quite a few fully built race cars that were about 10 seconds faster up the hill. Biggest take away(s), Cup2 are not the right tires but did fine, it is definitely more like autocross than a road course, 26 turns is a lot to memorize when you are not doing it lap after lap, softer suspension was better.