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Huge brake upgrade for S197 chassis

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xr7

TMO Addict?
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Minnesota
I'm revisiting trying to adapt a S550 M.C to the S197 booster. My question. Do the brake lines from the M.C to the ABS pump HAVE to be hard lines? Can I make -3 AN lines from the M.C to ABS pump??
I would guess that a "flexible" line would be OK, But you would want to have them made out of the same material that they use for the flex lines running to the calipers. Also would guess you may end up with a slightly more spongy pedal depending and the quality of line and also how much is used. I'm thinking the longer the line the more expansion.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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I understand the reluctance to try to bend lines, got it. But. If you buy the bending and universal flaring tool from Eastwood get some practice with cheap lines. You should be able to put together your own hard lines.
 
1,119
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5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
I found out on my truck that some brake lines are bubble flares. It has lines that are double on one end and bubble on the other. You need to look at each end and make sure that you duplicate the flare used to make sure they seal correctly.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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W2W Racing
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Cookeville TN
I'm revisiting trying to adapt a S550 M.C to the S197 booster. My question. Do the brake lines from the M.C to the ABS pump HAVE to be hard lines? Can I make -3 AN lines from the M.C to ABS pump??
You won't be able to make the S197 booster work with the S550 master cylinder. The way the push rod engages the master cylinder plunger is different between the two series. Myself and @2012-Boss have looked at this many different ways. My other friend who bought my 2011 21 Car, adapted a Tilton master cylinder with larger bore diameter to the S197 Booster. But that MC is clocked 45 degrees and required custom hard lines as well.
 

xr7

TMO Addict?
706
821
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Minnesota
You won't be able to make the S197 booster work with the S550 master cylinder. The way the push rod engages the master cylinder plunger is different between the two series. Myself and @2012-Boss have looked at this many different ways. My other friend who bought my 2011 21 Car, adapted a Tilton master cylinder with larger bore diameter to the S197 Booster. But that MC is clocked 45 degrees and required custom hard lines as well.
Any pictures and part#s of the Tilton installation?
 
303
251
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HPDE
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3-5 Years
25 min. to 1½ hrs. from Sonoma (ugh... traffic!)
I'm revisiting trying to adapt a S550 M.C to the S197 booster. My question. Do the brake lines from the M.C to the ABS pump HAVE to be hard lines? Can I make -3 AN lines from the M.C to ABS pump??
Tread carefully here! Your M/C may produce 2000 PSI. Many hydraulic systems are based on a 4:1 safety factor and your hard lines probably have a burst pressure of around 15,000 PSI. Many of the common AN braided hoses are rated at only 1000PSI. Also, bends and twists in the hose will affect it's performance under pressure.
If flexible hoses weren't needed for suspension travel and steering your entire system would be hard lines. Superior performance, weight, simplicity, cost, safety.
I would guess that a "flexible" line would be OK, But you would want to have them made out of the same material that they use for the flex lines running to the calipers. Also would guess you may end up with a slightly more spongy pedal depending and the quality of line and also how much is used. I'm thinking the longer the line the more expansion.
This type of hose might be adequate but the process and equipment for fabricating , crimping end fittings, and pressure testing is beyond the scope of an average DIY project. Also, I don't think that flexible brake lines can bend sharply enough to accommodate an installation like this.
I understand the reluctance to try to bend lines, got it. But. If you buy the bending and universal flaring tool from Eastwood get some practice with cheap lines. You should be able to put together your own hard lines.
↑ ↑ THIS ↑ ↑
 
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TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,529
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Exp. Type
HPDE
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10-20 Years
Illinois
The best part about making the perfect flare is having remembered to install the nut on the line before you make the flare:rolleyes: been there and done that
The correct direction for the fitting is also very helpful.....so I've heard. :banghead:
 
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08527
The booster is different. In the way it engages the master cylinder, the size and the level of assist provided. If you are considering a swap, I would plan to install a complete S550 M/C and booster. It will require modifying the pedal support and firewall holes slightly, lowering the engine just to install the booster (needs about 3", then can be reset in normal position) and a reworking of the brake feed pipes to the ABS block, S550 ports are on the inside of the M/C, the S197 are outside. I recommend this for a race application, on the street the pedal travel won't make a difference, but then again, we are Track Mustangs Online.

Thanks. When you guys were messing around with the S197/S550 boosters and MC's, did you ever get any insite on why Ford uses a rubber disk between the S197 booster and MC pushrod? Seems almost counterintuative, unless they were sacrificing some pedal feel for NVH maybe?

20180825_141006.jpg
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
4,008
1,924
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Cookeville TN
Any pictures and part#s of the Tilton installation?
I will ask him to send me some. I don't have any on hand. Will try and get the part list he used, including a proportioning valve and inline brake pressure transducer for his AiM setup.
 
1,119
1,110
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
For those of you that went from the 4 piston brembos to the 6 piston S550 brembos did you use the same type of brake pad or find that you needed to go to something more/less aggressive due to the increased surface area?
 
1,119
1,110
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
I am back to looking at the 15" 6 piston front upgrade. I have the Goodrich lines, Girodisc rotors and S550 6 piston Brembos. I have done some more reading ( dangerous I know) and am starting to second guess the choice of the S550 calipers over the 2014 GT500 6 piston Brembos due to the differences in volume. It looks like some people don't like the pedal feel with the S197 master cylinder. Is the extra surface area of the pads on the S550 worth the longer softer pedal or should I source a pair of Shelby Brembo calipers?
 
1,161
2,116
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
I am back to looking at the 15" 6 piston front upgrade. I have the Goodrich lines, Girodisc rotors and S550 6 piston Brembos. I have done some more reading ( dangerous I know) and am starting to second guess the choice of the S550 calipers over the 2014 GT500 6 piston Brembos due to the differences in volume. It looks like some people don't like the pedal feel with the S197 master cylinder. Is the extra surface area of the pads on the S550 worth the longer softer pedal or should I source a pair of Shelby Brembo calipers?
The longer pedal stroke is different at first, but I’ve found it easier to modulate. The factory 4 pot Brembos were more on/off, where the S550 Brembos have a longer, linear stroke. Much easier to trail brake with.
 

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