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Huge brake upgrade for S197 chassis

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,880
1,570
Phoenix, Az
I was talking to a coworker who worked on S197 program and they mentioned that the 2013-2014 GT500 with 6 pots got a knockback mitigation tune, which takes up the "dead space" in the pedal that is there after a half a lap of no brake use. The base and 4 pot brembos didn't get this tune since it wasn't an issue. Unfortunately for us, I'm not well versed in changing our ABS unit logic to that of the GT500, but I'm pretty sure someone here smarter than I am might be able to chime in.
knockback is a thing on these- I use the 302R race box for abs, but to mitigate the knockback I installed some AP racing anti-knockback springs. They help, but aren't a perfect solution. Floating rotors also help somewhat, but on sticky tires you'll always have a small degree of it.
 
247
380
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Wisconsin
knockback is a thing on these- I use the 302R race box for abs, but to mitigate the knockback I installed some AP racing anti-knockback springs. They help, but aren't a perfect solution. Floating rotors also help somewhat, but on sticky tires you'll always have a small degree of it.
That being said are you preloading the pedal before hard braking zones or even quick noise dive applications?

My new system seems to really struggle with this. So much so that I almost want to try something matched to the master cylinder.
 

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,880
1,570
Phoenix, Az
That being said are you preloading the pedal before hard braking zones or even quick noise dive applications?

My new system seems to really struggle with this. So much so that I almost want to try something matched to the master cylinder.
Yes, I always give a little press to set them before going full in - its such a habit I often do it in the truck on the tow home without thinking about it. You can see that in this image in the bottom left (the small red hump before the bigger one on the brake trace)
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247
380
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Wisconsin
Yes, I always give a little press to set them before going full in - its such a habit I often do it in the truck on the tow home without thinking about it. You can see that in this image in the bottom left (the small red hump before the bigger one on the brake trace)

Awesome advice, thank you. For short quick applications are just getting on it quick or hitting it twice. There is a corner at Blackhawk farms where I have about 100 feet to set the nose and need to do it quickly.
 
5,656
6,740
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Yes, I always give a little press to set them before going full in - its such a habit I often do it in the truck on the tow home without thinking about it.
Funny how these things are ingrained into us.
My very first stock car (1982) had a sticky brake pedal so you had to toe lift it a little bit so the brake would completely release.
I still to this day reach under the pedal and do a little lift when I come to a stop or slow up and re accelerate....cant have those brakes dragging you down.
We are truly creatures of habit.
 
486
428
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
So is there a current supplier of a kit for this economical brake upgrade?
Vorschlag and OP Mustang used to sell this upgrade as a kit, but I am not sure either of them still is. You can still assemble the kit yourself. It is 2014 Gt500 15" rotors (of your choosing), OEM Ford S550 6 Piston Brembo Calipers ( sourced from Ford or several aftermarket suppliers, brake pads of your choice, and Goodridge stainless brake lines for the 2014 GT 500. There are also a couple of machine shims available from McMaster Carr to center the calipers to the rotors that are optional. I will have to look up the part # when I get a chance.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,805
3,623
Santiago, Chile
Down here in Chile, the S197 and S550 cars came with out the better brake options so we ended up doing this to a lot of cars. Makes for a huge difference. Really am fond of this kit. The kit is very easy to put together since the part numbers are all here and a quick trip to Rockauto can get you rebuilt calipers if your trying to save pennies.

The braking is great with these things!!!
 
486
428
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
I was on Capldi's site yesterday and saw they have a kit with these calipers, rotors, lines, etc.
I may have missed something, but I don't believe the kits that Capaldi sells are the same thing. He has the 13-14 Shelby brake upgrade package listed which is 15" rotors but smaller 6 piston calipers than the S550 6 piston Brembo's. A lot of sites still list this kit but it has been back ordered from Ford for some time. It may not actually be available. He also sells the S550 6 piston upgrade kit, but the rotors have a different offset and will not work on the S197 cars.
 
486
428
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
Yes, I would say that ethe S550 15" kit is an upgrade over the Gt500 15" kit. bigger pads etc.
I agree, the larger pads on the S550 calipers should out perform the GT500 calipers. I was just pointing out in my post that the Capaldi kits do not look like this upgrade. They list the GT500 kit which is all four wheels or upgrade kits for the S550. The GT500 kits use the smaller front caliper and the rotors in the S550 kits are not compatible with the the S197.
 
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What is the advantage of the s550 setup when the 13/14 GT500 setup is available with very affordable calipers and rotors? With the GT500 calipers you get all the advantages of a longer torque arm and bigger heat sink with the 15" versus 14" rotors.... but without the problems with the master cylinder and brake pedal. Surface area of the brake pads shouldn't make a difference in braking performance, correct?

It seems clear the s550 6 pots are bigger volume and don't work well with the s197 MC. In their writeup on the s550 6 pot Brembo swap, Vorshlag notes that you really need to change the MC even on the s550 if you make this upgrade. Scroll about 3/4 down to their 1/21/21 update: https://www.vorshlag.com/forums/for...0-brakes-uses-limitaitons-and-upgrade-options

But the correct MC setup isn't available for s197 at least not without a ton of work. Yes, the 13/14 GT500 pads are smaller and don't sweep the entire rotor, but that seems like more of a visual problem than a performance one and a small price to pay compared to the MC problem and screwed up brake pedal? Is anyone running the s550 setup on an s197 without the brake pedal issues? What am I missing here?
 
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,805
3,623
Santiago, Chile
To be honest, I have no issues with the MC and find the brake feel to be great when matched to a aggressive track pad. Have seen some cars run with the GT500 disc setup but would not call them competitive. I can say the my current brake setup worries the hell out of the Cayman GT4 cars I run against. During the last a laps of the race when they are getting brake fade, that's when the S550 setup does a great job and can outbrake the GT4 cars. S550 pad are much easier to find as well, not to mention last much longer... Pad cost/life is also a important factor.

Basically, with out these S550 brakes, I do not think I would be competitive.
 
247
380
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Wisconsin
el to be great when matched to a aggressive track pad. Have seen some cars run with the GT500 disc setup but would not call them competitive. I can say the my current brake setup worries the hell out of the Cayman GT4 cars I run against. During the last a laps of the race when they are getting brake fade, that's when the S550 setup does a great job and can outbrake the GT4 cars. S550 pad are mu

There really is not an "issue" its more of a dead space on first initial engagement. That is why we talk about pre loading the MC first before hard application.
 

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