I know this is a naive wing question but....

Discussion in 'Road Racing Forum' started by Mad Hatter, May 27, 2019.

  1. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    My class is divided by lap times and the cars are open to all modifications (even nitro). Understanding that adding a full wing entails a host of modifications like splitter size etc. Can anyone give me a rule of thumb for what effect a full wing can have on lap times?? I currently have a best time of 1:10.4 and thats under the cut off at 1:10.00. Once I get over 1:10 will be racing with all out race cars. Mine is still streetable and arrives on its own wheels.

    If I lower my time by 1.5 seconds, would have a chance at winning some races in the faster class. Can a full wing do that??
     
  2. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Maybe. Your courses are short and technical. I don't think anything in the states is quite comparable. What's the speed through your two fastest turns there?

    About 1 sec seems more reasonable.

    Maybe a huge spoiler would be better for your use.
     
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  3. steveespo

    steveespo Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child Moderator

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    You need some 70-90 mph corners for a wing to help enough to offset drag on the straights. Figure .5 second per this type corner section. Lower speeds, lower gains.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Thanks guys, thats just the info I needed. The fast curve that I spun on is about 85mph and I count three other curves above 78mph. Bit worried about the Straight as thats where my car shines at the moment... Will try hood vents and put back the boss front grill with 15" brembos before the wing, just in case.
     
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  5. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Grant, just in case, its setup C2 at this track. Curves 8,9,10,11 and 14 are over 75mph. The end of curve 14 actually ends in a near 90deg turn to bring the speed down.... That's for the FWD and AWD cars that kept going into the wall

    upload_2019-5-27_21-52-29.png
     
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  6. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Race

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    you seem like a clever guy with your mechanical skills.....can you rig up some active aero? is that legal? 2 actuator rams that can move wing from position 1 to position 2 for straights vs curves? mph dependent
     
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  7. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    From looking at the track map, a wing will help you for most of the length of the back side of the course (from the exit of T7 to the braking zone for T12) as well as through the T14 sweeper. You'll enter the front straight with more speed, so even if your top speed is lowered by drag, your average speed down the straight might not change much. I think that your lap times will probably improve. However, you might have trouble passing if the wing takes away your top-speed advantage on the straight.

    Where it might gain you more is racing in the wet.
     
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  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Ouch,,, you had to bring up the "WET" word... Thats cruel.......... :confused:
     
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  9. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    last time out in the rain led to this....
    [​IMG]
     
  10. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    Sorry! I probably should have said "Where it'll probably help to keep you from running off the track is..."
     
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  11. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Lol... A wing would help... and... next time will leave the car with a Tune that still has TC on for the rain.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  12. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    In this configuration, it could be worth well over that 1.5 sec target...IF you drive to the limits through those esses and T14.

    Do you have some old video through those turns in that config?

    I'm thinking you could probably get away with the widest wing possible and a relatively steep AoA. I wouldn't 'worry' about the drag at all on this course.
     
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  13. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Get a 2nd wing and stack 'em like a biplane for the rain. ;)
     
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  14. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Its not the best video as the cel got loose........
     
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  15. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Get this:

    [​IMG]
    http://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gt-1000-dual-element-adjustable-wing/

    [​IMG]

    Super rough calcs...if you can carry about 6 mph more average through the back stretch from the 'esses' an again in T14, you should be able to pick up about 1.4 sec there and more if you can drive around the induced push/understeer and stay in the throttle more. Might need to dial out more squat and do what you can for front aero to make it work overall. There would be some loss of top speed MPH on the front straight but should be relatively small effect on lap time. If your gearing is 'right' for the track, there may be no effective loss at all. The video is from before the rear gear change? And the video is in MPH?
     
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  16. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Yes, its MPH and before the gear change. 1.4 seconds faster would put me right in the middle of the pack of dedicated race cars... Have another race on June 15th and will make sure all the camaras are working. My OEM Boss splitter arrived today so we will have that on as well as the Boss grill and the trackspec hood grills. If I get less then 1:10 and get sent to the big boy category...will probably get the 9lives racing wing ... Its half the price of the APR wing.....feeling the $$$ pain
    upload_2019-5-29_12-50-49.png

    Getting bumped up will leave me with out any chances at the championship but racing with the faster cars will be fun..
     
  17. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Will study all this info with great interest!!
     
  18. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Well I though I would update my wing experience here... First race with the wing on got me a personal best time of 1:10.048 and had to hit the brakes when my cel phone app gave me a predicted time of 1:09.7 (or i go up a category) I started with -10 degrees angle with a 1/2" Gurney.... I could not rotate the car at all and the rear end has never ever been so stuck to the road... left me feeling a little lost to tell the truth.. But, the loss in top speed really hurt me. Car was down at least 10Km/hr on average. Probably one of the biggest changes to the car so far and looks like I need to do more track time to even things out. Maybe next time will start out a zero degrees...and go with small changes.

    But looks like it has great potential once I get the hang of it!
     
  19. ArizonaBOSS

    ArizonaBOSS Because racecar. Moderator

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    I run my wing close to flat FWIW. You also have to take into account the airflow over the "fastback" profile of the car as well. Ideally you will be able to tune the rear grip of the car in high-speed corners with the wing.
     
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  20. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    general rule of thumb, mate the IMSA splitter with the IMSA wing, mate the PWC splitter with the PWC wing, this way you will have a ball park balance, it's not absolutely true in all cases that a wing will kill your top speed, yes, it will tend to chop MPH, BUT if that same wing allows you to carry speed off the corner then there is a net gain, not always a loss.
     
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