Improve the steering feel "campaign"

[13Boss#3328]

By using lighter wheels and better tires I am hoping to improve the steering feel.
Full of ignorance and lack of knowledge I was thinking to go with lower profile tires on a wider/lighter rim and call it a day!

As you might know, the Boss is my DD and my fun/track car too. I am seriously considering retiring the stock wheels from public duty and store them away. I am doing so for 2 main reasons: first they are heavy and 19 inch. Second I believe they will be worth big money down the road as I do not think you can buy them from anywhere now, maybe ford? Funny I am saving the wheels, but DD the car.

I realize you really do not need to go super wide tires to have fun, so I am thinking to get
Enkei PF01 18X9.5 with 45mm offset (20 Ib)
255/40-18 (all corners) that has a load index close to the stock tires.

I initially wanted to go as small as 245/35-18, but the TireRack guy almost threw a fit and he started explaining to me the load index and gross axle weight rating...etc
Things that I had no awareness of.

I also realize that a lot of the steering "feel" comes from the tire compound itself, the weight over the tires, suspension and steering rack mechanism...etc. I used to have a 2013 Honda Fit as DD and I ran 205/50-15 Dunlop Direzza ZII tires; I can safely tell you that the Fit had a better steering feel than my Boss any day.

Tire experts, I am crying out to you!

 

[F.D. Sako]

I've had similar experiences and thoughts as you.

my 18x10 F14 forgestars wrapped in 285/35's feel tons better than the OEM setup. So, lighter wheels and stickier tires do make a big difference in steering feel. Another modification that helped alot was CC plates and alignment. For some reason, I thought you already had CC plates, if not, i'd invest in them.

Another thing I can relate to is your Fit experience... my corolla with Z1 star specs (or any tire) has better steering feel than my boss :

 

[VoodooBoss]

Do your 18" track wheels make that much of a difference in steering feel when driving them on the street? Also do you have camber plates installed?

I recommend buying 255/35/19 and 285/35/19 Michelin PSS tires for your stock wheels and be resigned to the fact that you're not driving an air cooled Porsche 911. Our cars are heavy and I wouldn't go narrower tires up front. The PSS is an outstanding tire in all conditions and should give you improved feel over the stock Pirelli's. The lower profile should also help a bit at the expense of ride quality. I have 265/35/19 and 295/30/19 PSS tires and really like them a lot.

 

[13Boss#3328]

I do have CC plate and now I run -2 camber, zero toe and 7 caster both side.

My track wheels/tires are Enkei PF01 18X10.5 +38 with 295/35-18 Rivals, the steering feels heavier, not much feel at all, but tremendous grip!!

PF01 18X9.5 +45 I think will go a long way for DD. They are concerningly light!

I have noticed that the last few years M3s are stretching the tires to a 1/2 inch lower than the maximum wheel width allowed. And this is the case with some other european sports cars.

So based on those non-scientific observations, I will likely reside to 255/40-18 all corners. I think the 255/35-19 you suggested have low load index for our front heavy cars.

Yes MPSS are the best, but Potenza S-04 pole position falls JUST behind them with significantly smaller amount of money.

Let me tell you how much fun I had with the Blizzaks WS80 snow tires, they were only 235/50-18, wheel hop never happened and the car felt lighter on its feet...so much fun lol not even on snow, I am talking dry tarmac. It reminded me why Subaru/Toyota chose prius tires for the BRZ/FRS. Just pure fun.

With the stock 285 tires at the rear, the grip is monstrous, they grip until the rear end hops and then they are not very progressive on breakaway too.

Yes Rick, I am in peace with myself that the Boss was not meant and will never be Porsche 911, Cayman or Lotus. It is a fat bad ass angry sounding American metal who is outstandingly an over achiever. I love underdogs, by the time they finish laughing at my solid axle "straight liner" I am already out of their sight as I am exiting corner 12 while they are still negotiating corner 8... 8)

 

[Champale]

In your preferred 255/40/18, tirerack lists the weights as follows:
S04 - 29lbs
PSS - 25lbs

So the S04 is 16% heavier and all of that weight is out at the furthest point from the axle.

I have been through a few wheel/tire combinations - OE LS setup (heavy, dull steering), Boss 302S 19x10s with 285/35 RE11s at all 4 corners (even heavier/duller steering, but great grip), Forgestar CF5 19x10 all 4 corners with same RE11s (much, much, MUCH lighter steering and better feel due to wheel being lightweight ~ 10lbs less than the 302S wheels), and now (due to bending 2 of the Forgestars on a severe pothole) 20x10.5 HRE FF01s (all 4) with 285/30/20 front and 305/30/20 rear PSS. Honestly, and surprisingly, this combination has the lightest and best steering feel. The PSS is a super light tire for a given size and my current wheels are pretty light for a 20.

You are a braver soul than me for wanting narrower tires. These are not 'tossable' cars like a 2500lbs Fit (or even my old 3500lbs Evos). I want all the grip I can get and I will say that the PSS has surprised me with it's grip and also it's predictability/controlability when getting on the gas exiting corners.

 

[13Boss#3328]

In your preferred 255/40/18, tirerack lists the weights as follows:
S04 - 29lbs
PSS - 25lbs

So the S04 is 16% heavier and all of that weight is out at the furthest point from the axle.

I have been through a few wheel/tire combinations - OE LS setup (heavy, dull steering), Boss 302S 19x10s with 285/35 RE11s at all 4 corners (even heavier/duller steering, but great grip), Forgestar CF5 19x10 all 4 corners with same RE11s (much, much, MUCH lighter steering and better feel due to wheel being lightweight ~ 10lbs less than the 302S wheels), and now (due to bending 2 of the Forgestars on a severe pothole) 20x10.5 HRE FF01s (all 4) with 285/30/20 front and 305/30/20 rear PSS. Honestly, and surprisingly, this combination has the lightest and best steering feel. The PSS is a super light tire for a given size and my current wheels are pretty light for a 20.

You are a braver soul than me for wanting narrower tires. These are not 'tossable' cars like a 2500lbs Fit (or even my old 3500lbs Evos). I want all the grip I can get and I will say that the PSS has surprised me with it's grip and also it's predictability/controlability when getting on the gas exiting corners.

Good point about the tire weight! Significant indeed.
Narrower tires on a slightly wider rims might do the trick.

 

[Champale]

Have you considered the 275/40/18 option?

In the PSS, it's only 27lbs and you can use them on your 10.5" wheels (which might save you money in the long run - or you can buy the 18x10s on sale at American Muscle for $79/each). Plus the overall diameter is 26.7", so which is almost identical to OE.

 

[askjeffro]

Champale, where did you get your HRE's?

 

[Champale]

Paul at Howey industries. He is a huge help and you can contact him at [email protected].

 

[13Boss#3328]

Have you considered the 275/40/18 option?

In the PSS, it's only 27lbs and you can use them on your 10.5" wheels (which might save you money in the long run - or you can buy the 18x10s on sale at American Muscle for $79/each). Plus the overall diameter is 26.7", so which is almost identical to OE.

As narrow and low profile as possible that can take the mustang weight. So 275 would not be on the list.
outstanding sale for 18x10 from American Muscle!!

 

[Grant 302]

I appreciate what I *think* you're trying to achieve. Especially by running tires near the max recommended rim width. Since you have the 10.5" rims, I'd consider running 275 or 285 on those.

But I do think you aren't really economizing with a tire that is not likely to last as long. Just my opinion, but I've gotten way more life out of my one set of Super Sports over two sets of RS-3s or two sets of P Zeros.

I also think you're missing some of the hardware components from your list.
I think getting rid of the strut mount bushing would help, and probably the lower hydro bushing. Drop ball joints and a bumpsteer kit might also get you closer to what you're looking for.

And here's the kicker: What you're describing is not unlike my *stock* Brembo GT suspension. 255 square on P Zeros. 24mm rear sway. Slightly softer springs...otherwise really similar. Still a lot of fun to drive, but ate tires on track. Food for thought before you spend more money on narrower tires.

 

[13Boss#3328]

I am actually planning to buy a set of PF01 18X9.5 for my DD. So 255/40-18 will be for DD only.
I do have the PF01 10.5 inch rims too for the track.

No other hardware change I am considering, just tires/wheels at this point.

Thanks for the inputs.