Lap Time Thread

[Fabman]

FWIW I run my wing pretty close to flat. I'd bet AJ's wing is even more efficient than my APR one, as well.
You could try stiffening your rear bar, but that may affect traction when on-power not in a straight line, depends how good your diff is.

Alternately (or cumulatively), can you soften your front bar at all?

I run 600/325 now so that's pretty darn close to my setup--although in that Laguna video I was on 800/275.

Front bar was in the middle hole w/500's and I went full soft when I put the 600's in.
Its probably just too much wing, like I said, I had no way of checking wing angle at the track so it was a guess. Just the same I will go over every thing in excruciating detail as is my usual style.

 

[steveespo]

Results from this weekend-

Mid Ohio Pro Course - 1:35.2
Mid Ohio Club Course - 1:36.1

Both in a 2012 TT3 Spec Mustang on Pirelli DH's. Not too bad for my first trip to MidO. Left about a second on the table on the Pro course Saturday. Learned a few things on Sunday that would have helped.




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Chris you guys were killing it last weekend. Are you going to qualify for Nationals at Sebring? I might make the trip down to see you guys if you and Shaun are going. I'm sure an extra crew guy would be helpful now that you have to engineer and drive. LOL


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[Shonuff82]

I believe we are both qualified but we decided to not make the trip the year... just too far of a drive. We are hoping they move it back up north next year (MidO, VIR ect). If that's the case, we will be all in and def looking for crew help!


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[smallblock]

1:40.32 @ Mid Ohio with chicane 305/680/18 Pirelli DH

 

[Fabman]

FWIW I run my wing pretty close to flat. I'd bet AJ's wing is even more efficient than my APR one, as well.
You could try stiffening your rear bar, but that may affect traction when on-power not in a straight line, depends how good your diff is.

Alternately (or cumulatively), can you soften your front bar at all?

I run 600/325 now so that's pretty darn close to my setup--although in that Laguna video I was on 800/275.

Well there goes the wing theory




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[antman450]

Well there goes the wing theory




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Think about compared to before. You removed a bunch of weight in the front and added fuel cell in the back. How does your corner weights balance compared to before. I bet that has a ton to do with it. Then again, I may be way off. You did move stuff to the front for putting in the cell.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

LOL @ wing pic

Are you running 335 square or staggered fitment?
With all that aero on the front you should be glued to the fn ground for turn-in...

 

[Fabman]

LOL @ wing pic

Are you running 335 square or staggered fitment?
With all that aero on the front you should be glued to the fn ground for turn-in...

Square, and definitely not glued. Something is wrong. Like bottoming or something.

 

[Fabman]

Think about compared to before. You removed a bunch of weight in the front and added fuel cell in the back. How does your corner weights balance compared to before. I bet that has a ton to do with it. Then again, I may be way off. You did move stuff to the front for putting in the cell.

Not a significant amount...less than 20 pounds total. Plus i removed 20 pounds with the smaller battery.

 

[Grant 302]

Square, and definitely not glued. Something is wrong. Like bottoming or something.

What are your damper settings? Ride height?

 

[Fabman]

What are your damper settings? Ride height?

Ride heights are unchanged from before...I did soften the front shocks from -4 w/the 500's to -12 with the 600's and then after a couple sessions changed to -20 with some minor improvement. You'd think with stiffer springs it would be LESS likely to bottom....unless, perhaps the softer shock setting let it transfer more weight faster and bottom whereas the stiffer shock settings wouldn't, even though softer shocks would promote adhesion disregarding the bottoming possibility. I'm very well versed on the myriad of adjustments to tighten and loosen the car in various dynamic situations, what baffles me is what changed from before. Aside from being a tad stiffer, I am suspect of the rear springs being shorter (7" instead of 8"). I theorize that as the body rolls, the spring becomes slack on its mount and affects the sway bar rate because it is no longer working against the spring...but that would make it transfer weight off the left rear causing it to get looser, unless it's over loading the right front first....I need to watch some of the in car video and check my memory. There is some piece of information that I am missing.

 

[Fabman]

What are your damper settings? Ride height?

Ride heights measured from the jacking points are 5" rear and 4 5/8" front.
When my son and I climb in the rear squats 3/8" and the car becomes essentially level.
Same formula that has worked for me well so far.

 

[Fabman]

Think about compared to before. You removed a bunch of weight in the front and added fuel cell in the back. How does your corner weights balance compared to before. I bet that has a ton to do with it. Then again, I may be way off. You did move stuff to the front for putting in the cell.

I removed about 75 pounds of water tank from the rear and added maybe 20 pounds to the front, but then deducted 20 pounds from the front with a smaller battery for a net zero gain in front percentage. The gas tank in the rear/center of the car held 16 gallons. That was removed and a cell with 15 gallons was installed at the rear. So the rear actually got lighter, yet weight shifted rearward. So it should have more rear weight and a slightly increased polar moment of inertia.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Any sign of contact or rubbing in the front or rear suspension? Is the rear bar connected completely? Front bar binding or contacting somewhere (check clearance front bar arm to LCA)?

 

[Fabman]

Any sign of contact or rubbing in the front or rear suspension? Is the rear bar connected completely? Front bar binding or contacting somewhere (check clearance front bar arm to LCA)?

I haven't had it back on the rack yet to inspect, but none of those things have changed from before. I need to inspect and measure everything.
There is some piece of information I am missing.

 

[Fabman]

Really the only things that have changed suspension wise is stiffer springs, softer front shocks, rear weight shifted rearward slightly and a big wang set at zero degrees.

 

[Fabman]

Unless that big wing at zero degrees attack is just too much...but I can't imagine that.

 

[Grant 302]

This:

Front bar was in the middle hole w/500's and I went full soft when I put the 600's in.

Plus this:

Ride heights are unchanged from before...I did soften the front shocks from -4 w/the 500's to -12 with the 600's and then after a couple sessions changed to -20 with some minor improvement. You'd think with stiffer springs it would be LESS likely to bottom....unless, perhaps the softer shock setting let it transfer more weight faster and bottom whereas the stiffer shock settings wouldn't, even though softer shocks would promote adhesion disregarding the bottoming possibility. I'm very well versed on the myriad of adjustments to tighten and loosen the car in various dynamic situations, what baffles me is what changed from before. Aside from being a tad stiffer, I am suspect of the rear springs being shorter (7" instead of 8"). I theorize that as the body rolls, the spring becomes slack on its mount and affects the sway bar rate because it is no longer working against the spring...but that would make it transfer weight off the left rear causing it to get looser, unless it's over loading the right front first....I need to watch some of the in car video and check my memory. There is some piece of information that I am missing.

Sounds like way too many changes.

Sounds like waaaay too soft on the low speed. Why not start with -4? I'm thinking -3 would have been I would have tried first. Where is your HS/rebound set?

I think I understand what you were going for with the bar on full soft, but off the cuff without knowing your sway rates, I'd either go back toward stiff. or middle or 2 of 4 if you have 4 adjustment points.

 

[steveespo]

Sal try stiffening the front bar back up next event. I know it seems counterintuitive but these cars like to have strong roll resistance up front and stiff springs. You may have been getting onto the bump rubber and overloaded the outside tire. Shouldn't be to hard to change it to multiple positions at the track right?


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[Fabman]

This:

Plus this:


Sounds like way too many changes.

Sounds like waaaay too soft on the low speed. Why not start with -4? I'm thinking -3 would have been I would have tried first. Where is your HS/rebound set?

I think I understand what you were going for with the bar on full soft, but off the cuff without knowing your sway rates, I'd either go back toward stiff. or middle or 2 of 4 if you have 4 adjustment points.

I have JRI single adjustables so the choice is "stiffer" or "softer", that's it.

FRPP Blue bar-3 holes

Going stiffer on the springs increased my front roll couple so the right thing to do is soften the sway bar and then stiffen it as circumstance allowed....but they didn't. Stiffening it with that push would only make it worse. Last time at laguna with the 500's I had the sway bar in the middle hole, then went stiffer and it (predictably) picked up a big push on exit so I put it back to the middle and the push went away. So I went bigger springs instead to add stability on corner entry. With stock cars I would go stiffer and stiffer until it picked up a corner entry push and then back off one number. Then stiffen the front bar until it picked up a corner exit push, then back off one setting. (The old "Spring in/Bar out" rule) I raced all over the country and that method worked flawlessly. A 600# spring is not too much for this car, especially with this much tire, others are running that and more with great success. Question is, Was the softer shock setting letting it bottom? I was all set to stiffen the setting as was my plan but at the last minute I second guessed myself (never do that) and went softer instead trying to gain tire compliance.

It doesn't feel like a stiff push, it feels like a "somebody knocked my toe off" push like when short track cars bang wheels...like there is something bent, or a shock is bottoming. I haven't had a chance to inspect the car but I suspect I will find something physically "Wrong" with it somewhere....I don't think its in the setup. But I won't know anything until I know, and then we'll all know. So the question is...how much faster will it be when it no longer pushes like the Queen Mary...? Certainly some amount...