Long Tube Headers & Check Engine Lights Explained

[lbp]

And here I thought I was one of the only Boss owners that would be taking their car to the strip considering the preferred motoring sport of the Boss owner lol

If you have the track key programmed, then if you install an aftermarket tune, the track key program (dual key) usage cannot be recovered - unless you go back to Ford.

That isnt true. I bought a tune from JLP installed it and was/am able to go back and forth between the Trackey Tune and the JLP tune.

And swapping headers isn't very outside the box, it is done quite a bit in the turbo import scene. I know a few people who do it with aftermarket turbo kits but seems it also is not a viable solution here due to the time it takes.

Yeah trust this guy it takes a long time/ a lift/ a pole jack and tiny hands to swap headers on the 5.0. I have helped some people do it...its not something you want to do more than once without getting paid to do it.

Justin,
How has the tune been?
- Do you track the car?

Umm the tune...isnt very driveable to me. Its an old school idle tune. Sounds good at idle and drives fine at WOT anything in between...it bucks around below 2000, surges at part throttle, hangs up the rpms between shifts (rmps just hang at where they were). you let up on the gas in 1st and it will out cruise at 20mph.

I dont track the car like you guys do. I am a drag racer. I havent tried it at the track. I took it back off the car cause I started to hate to drive the car and the cats started to get a sulfur smell pretty bad.

75 dollars was the cost for the tune. It makes for a crowd at the car shows

Hmmm...
Well, there's got to be someone out there with a tune on a track-driven Boss.
...Anyone??

Lund Racing They have an excellent reputation, tune the fastest cars on the strip and some of the fastest Mustangs on the Texas Mile and are known for being a little conservative in their tunes. Jon Lund and Ken Bajones (sp) are some of the best tuners in the Mustang community.

​

Are these guys drag racers?
I do the road racing stuff.
30 - 90 minutes on/off heavy engine loads can really beat up the motor and will eventually uncover any weak link or deficiencies, usually when you least need it to happen ;D
...Not that Mr. WOT/gear jammin'/quarter miler is any easier on that Coyote

- Would still like to hear from any guys who run a tune on their road course-tracked Bosses

 

[cloud9]

I had a Lund tune through Evolution on my GT500 for a few weeks. It detonated badly at first (not exactly leaving a lot on the table). They did tweak the timing to eliminate thy but then had bad surging issues around 3k TPMS. It also melted my cats. Maybe this was an issue with Evolution more than Lund and maybe he has changed/improved the tuning since then. Evolution was really no help getting it resolved so I threw in the towel and went with Justin Starkey (VMP tuning) and it made more power with no drivability issues whatsoever. I road raced the Boss on Justin's tune for 3 years and another year and a half on the street now that I have the Boss. It has held up flawlessly.

Lee I know Justin has stated on another forum that he is putting a blower on his Boss and is more of a drag racer but does go to the road course. You might want to talk with him about a tune for the road course just to see what he has to say.

 

[lbp]

I had a Lund tune through Evolution on my GT500 for a few weeks. It detonated badly at first (not exactly leaving a lot on the table). They did tweak the timing to eliminate thy but then had bad surging issues around 3k TPMS. It also melted my cats. Maybe this was an issue with Evolution more than Lund and maybe he has changed/improved the tuning since then. Evolution was really no help getting it resolved so I threw in the towel and went with Justin Starkey (VMP tuning) and it made more power with no drivability issues whatsoever. I road raced the Boss on Justin's tune for 3 years and another year and a half on the street now that I have the Boss. It has held up flawlessly.

Lee I know Justin has stated on another forum that he is putting a blower on his Boss and is more of a drag racer but does go to the road course. You might want to talk with him about a tune for the road course just to see what he has to say.

Will do.
Basically, I like the idea of running KOOKS on top of track key for RR.
- Just curious to know how the tune thing has worked out (or not) for others in RR scenarios.

 

[nota4re]

That isnt true. I bought a tune from JLP installed it and was/am able to go back and forth between the Trackey Tune and the JLP tune

REALLY???????

This would be a first - as no one else has ever been able to do this. Please clarify what you can currently do.

1.) OEM: You have Black Key and Track Key - each invoking a specific tune.
2.) You install JLP tune using SCT

Are you saying...

A.) You can revert back to OEM where you have Black Key and Track Key BOTH working depending on the key used

Or, are you saying...

B.) You can switch between the JLP and Track Key tune - but the dual key, dual tune does NOT work.

 

[CaliMR]

Drag strip and road course are completely different animals as far as far as how they abuse your car. How, not how much. Of course some things overlap, but a tune that is safe on the drag strip will not necessarily be safe on the road course. Just as certain parts don't really overlap like the tires and suspension. I don't know anything about these particular tuners, but if one is a roadcourse guy and one is a drag guy then you should take that into account when you get one.

 

[nota4re]

Drag strip and road course are completely different animals as far as far as how they abuse your car. How, not how much. Of course some things overlap, but a tune that is safe on the drag strip will not necessarily be safe on the road course. Just as certain parts don't really overlap like the tires and suspension. I don't know anything about these particular tuners, but if one is a roadcourse guy and one is a drag guy then you should take that into account when you get one.

Boy Howdy!! Fully agree!

And if it is a road course tune, what do folks *think* they're getting? IMHO, it would be difficult to improve upon Ford's OEM tunes without jeopardizing engine longevity. Example: Think you can run leaner than OEM? Guess again. Think you can run a more aggressive timing curve? Guess again. Think you can run more boost? Oh, wait, we are NA! What else is there?

 

[Rich_S]

Drag strip and road course are completely different animals as far as far as how they abuse your car. How, not how much. Of course some things overlap, but a tune that is safe on the drag strip will not necessarily be safe on the road course. Just as certain parts don't really overlap like the tires and suspension. I don't know anything about these particular tuners, but if one is a roadcourse guy and one is a drag guy then you should take that into account when you get one.

Boy Howdy!! Fully agree!

And if it is a road course tune, what do folks *think* they're getting? IMHO, it would be difficult to improve upon Ford's OEM tunes without jeopardizing engine longevity. Example: Think you can run leaner than OEM? Guess again. Think you can run a more aggressive timing curve? Guess again. Think you can run more boost? Oh, wait, we are NA! What else is there?

TI-VCT changes?

I'm honestly a little confused that TK doesn't increase HP since it does change ignition timing, unless it's only changing low RPM/part throttle timing.

 

[Justin]

That isnt true. I bought a tune from JLP installed it and was/am able to go back and forth between the Trackey Tune and the JLP tune

REALLY???????

This would be a first - as no one else has ever been able to do this. Please clarify what you can currently do.

1.) OEM: You have Black Key and Track Key - each invoking a specific tune.
2.) You install JLP tune using SCT

Are you saying...

A.) You can revert back to OEM where you have Black Key and Track Key BOTH working depending on the key used

Or, are you saying...

B.) You can switch between the JLP and Track Key tune - but the dual key, dual tune does NOT work.

The way I read your post was that once you put a tune on your car you cannot go back to the factory tune + trackey with out taking it to the dealer. that isnt true if that is what you are saying.

What I am saying is:
With JLP tune loaded both keys ran the JLP tune (the red key would still say trackey in use etc)

I can take the tuner and "revert to stock" and it will go back to silver key being stock and trackey being the red key.

 

[nota4re]

Justin,

I really like what you are saying. It is a breakthrough! To the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has been able to have this functionality.

I spoke to Johnny a lot at last year's SEMA event and I know that he got a Boss to "do the tunes right". I'm really glad that he has this figured out!

 

[Justin]

Justin,

I really like what you are saying. It is a breakthrough! To the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has been able to have this functionality.

I spoke to Johnny a lot at last year's SEMA event and I know that he got a Boss to "do the tunes right". I'm really glad that he has this figured out!

Just FYI it wouldnt load a custom tune with the silver key and you had to use the red key to put it back to stock as well. Compared to tuning my 06 GT that I had the uploading of the factory tune seems to take twice as long

 

[CaliMR]

Drag strip and road course are completely different animals as far as far as how they abuse your car. How, not how much. Of course some things overlap, but a tune that is safe on the drag strip will not necessarily be safe on the road course. Just as certain parts don't really overlap like the tires and suspension. I don't know anything about these particular tuners, but if one is a roadcourse guy and one is a drag guy then you should take that into account when you get one.

Boy Howdy!! Fully agree!

And if it is a road course tune, what do folks *think* they're getting? IMHO, it would be difficult to improve upon Ford's OEM tunes without jeopardizing engine longevity. Example: Think you can run leaner than OEM? Guess again. Think you can run a more aggressive timing curve? Guess again. Think you can run more boost? Oh, wait, we are NA! What else is there?

TI-VCT changes?

I'm honestly a little confused that TK doesn't increase HP since it does change ignition timing, unless it's only changing low RPM/part throttle timing.

I've asked this a few times and nobody has really answered. Supposedly it is leaner and more timing at WOT all the way to redline, but there is no increase in power other than down low.

 

[nota4re]

I've asked this a few times and nobody has really answered. Supposedly it is leaner and more timing at WOT all the way to redline, but there is no increase in power other than down low.

I'll give the answer a shot....

The question is why is Black Key and Track key have the same HP as it seems that TK should be higher.

A: Think about Black Key for a second and WOT. In this scenario, everything is balls to the wall. A/F's are adjusted to balance for max power and engine longevity. Timing is going to advance and the engine is going to listen to knock sensors to tell it to back-off. VVT is set for max power. AC Compressor is turned off. There is really nothing left on the table. Along comes TK. What can be different? In the programming for WOT, the engineers are not likely to make different decisions. A/F's to be run a lttle different? (Actually, yes from our dyno experience, but not enough to make measureable HP/TQ differences.) Timing set hard and listening for knock sensors. VVT also set the same.

On one hand, you might think that TK would be more aggressive with one or more of these "primary influencers". On the other hand, the driver on TK might be on the race track in extremely harsh conditions where he/she is MUCH more capable to keep the engine at its limits for 20, 30 or 40 minute (or more) sessions. Do you really want this to be your "closest to the edge" tune?

I can really see why in a max power scenaio, the two tunes are virtually identical.

 

[Shaun@AED]

Back on the O2's with longtube header issue:

The Ford O2 Heater strategy for the widebands is based on Inferred EGT's. The strategy takes into account distance from valve to O2, distance from valve to Cat, temp changes with Lambda, spark, Load, etc.

Change the location of the wideband and the ECU has no clue. The result is a Wideband that may not be up to full operating temp in certain conditions.

 

[CaliMR]

I've asked this a few times and nobody has really answered. Supposedly it is leaner and more timing at WOT all the way to redline, but there is no increase in power other than down low.

I'll give the answer a shot....

The question is why is Black Key and Track key have the same HP as it seems that TK should be higher.

A: Think about Black Key for a second and WOT. In this scenario, everything is balls to the wall. A/F's are adjusted to balance for max power and engine longevity. Timing is going to advance and the engine is going to listen to knock sensors to tell it to back-off. VVT is set for max power. AC Compressor is turned off. There is really nothing left on the table. Along comes TK. What can be different? In the programming for WOT, the engineers are not likely to make different decisions. A/F's to be run a lttle different? (Actually, yes from our dyno experience, but not enough to make measureable HP/TQ differences.) Timing set hard and listening for knock sensors. VVT also set the same.

On one hand, you might think that TK would be more aggressive with one or more of these "primary influencers". On the other hand, the driver on TK might be on the race track in extremely harsh conditions where he/she is MUCH more capable to keep the engine at its limits for 20, 30 or 40 minute (or more) sessions. Do you really want this to be your "closest to the edge" tune?

I can really see why in a max power scenaio, the two tunes are virtually identical.

I appreciate the answer but I think you took it the wrong way. I fully understand why they didn't give it more power, but the postings and charts i have seen seem to indicate timing and afr are different enough that there should be a change. It seems from most people's posts that they leaned it out and added timing for no gain at high load (other than low rpm - even those gains i have seen conflicting graphs) while it would seem more logical, at least to my turbo motor experience, to richen up the afr for a "track" tune if they are not trying to gain hp.

However, you seem to be saying that at wot there are no significant changes to timing or afr. This is contrary to everything i recall reading about testing (i haven't had mine on a dyno yet) of the track vs regular key. Then it makes perfect sense there are no hp changes. But as i said, everyone seems to be saying there are significant amount of change (i don't know NA tuning enough to know what is significant here but they claim it is) in afr and timing along with the lack of a change in hp, resulting in a less safe in theory tune with no real benefits other than less engine braking and a Sprint Booster affect on the throttle.

Posted from ipad, so spelling is horrible lol

 

[jeepinocala]

Track key differences verse black key these I do know and there are alot more--first the changes are really not enough to measure on a dyno but on the street wow first off take off with the black key foot to the floor and the throttle will open as engine needs but with track key it opens as you lay that foot down thus the throttle responce kinda comparing an automatic trans tune to an aftermarket trans tune, is a good comparison, it just makes everything do what it should instead of when the engine needs it to creating a feel that the car should have had from the beginning. yes it does change air/fuel around idle and vvt for that dopey idle ;D then it also turns off your skip shift and other parameters like that when it comes right down to it think of it as adding leather interior or something to that effect, yes it does make a huge difference, but as I read here up higher you think it is the best tune HA no way is ford going to give you the best tune for the track, an aftermarket tune can be made to compare to race track tunes that are used all the time and I am more then sure they would be better but maybe not a huge difference to some people. Remember ford had a different track key tune but id did not pass inspection so we did NOT get it, instead we got a detuned track key tune And I hate when people compare things on a dyno thats bull dynos can be manipulated alot and one will give you something different from another.

 

[ford20]

Do you sell the green green cats on your site Kendall?

 

[nota4re]

Track key differences verse black key these I do know and there are alot more

I agree. I'm a fan of track key. Although, I'm not really a fan of how lean the car is with Track Key. I was only trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to offer an explanation of why the black and red keys produced the same power at WOT.

Do you sell the green green cats on your site Kendall?

I'll add those. If you want to order before I can fix the website, just drop me an email.

 

[Rich_S]

I've asked this a few times and nobody has really answered. Supposedly it is leaner and more timing at WOT all the way to redline, but there is no increase in power other than down low.

I'll give the answer a shot....

The question is why is Black Key and Track key have the same HP as it seems that TK should be higher.

A: Think about Black Key for a second and WOT. In this scenario, everything is balls to the wall. A/F's are adjusted to balance for max power and engine longevity. Timing is going to advance and the engine is going to listen to knock sensors to tell it to back-off. VVT is set for max power. AC Compressor is turned off. There is really nothing left on the table. Along comes TK. What can be different? In the programming for WOT, the engineers are not likely to make different decisions. A/F's to be run a lttle different? (Actually, yes from our dyno experience, but not enough to make measureable HP/TQ differences.) Timing set hard and listening for knock sensors. VVT also set the same.

On one hand, you might think that TK would be more aggressive with one or more of these "primary influencers". On the other hand, the driver on TK might be on the race track in extremely harsh conditions where he/she is MUCH more capable to keep the engine at its limits for 20, 30 or 40 minute (or more) sessions. Do you really want this to be your "closest to the edge" tune?

I can really see why in a max power scenaio, the two tunes are virtually identical.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about track key here, but if that's the case and advancing the ignition timing, leaning out the AF, and retarding the TI-VCT doesn't make more peak power then how are the aftermarket tuners making 15-30 more peak hp with their tunes?

 

[cloud9]

Unloading the car tonight it occurred to me that the CEL actually fills in the picture quite nicely. Getting closer to pulling the trigger on the LTHs.

By cloud91965 at 2012-07-11

 

[PeteInCT]

Unloading the car tonight it occurred to me that the CEL actually fills in the picture quite nicely. Getting closer to pulling the trigger on the LTHs.

http://imageshack.us/mobile/gallery.php

We need a better link than that buddy ! ;D