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MotoIQ - Project Budget 400whp S197 Mustang Track Car

1,073
866
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Philly Metro Area
I guess I'm reading the article wrong or something. It seems like the article is recommending a shorter third link with a poly bushing,
You are partially reading it wrong. Yes, they use the shorter arm but the article clearly states it is a rubber bushing.

"The Roush 3rd link has a small, hard durometer rubber bushing that dampens the shock from the rear-end and greatly increases rear grip over a spherical or polyurethane bushing."

I also want to know why they opted to use the shorter/older version. And, how they will adjust pinion angle if they have to.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
844
871
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Japan
You are partially reading it wrong. Yes, they use the shorter arm but the article clearly states it is a rubber bushing.

"The Roush 3rd link has a small, hard durometer rubber bushing that dampens the shock from the rear-end and greatly increases rear grip over a spherical or polyurethane bushing."

I also want to know why they opted to use the shorter/older version. And, how they will adjust pinion angle if they have to.

I see that, thanks! Definitely my bad. Evidently I failed...pretty much everything.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
835
618
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Actually, I really did mean anti-squat. More specifically, the anti-squat curve. The anti-squat percentage varies with ride height, and at some point in the bump travel it stops decreasing and starts increasing again. There's probably a way to take advantage of this . . .

S197 Antisquat curve.jpg



Norm
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Actually, I really did mean anti-squat. More specifically, the anti-squat curve. The anti-squat percentage varies with ride height, and at some point in the bump travel it stops decreasing and starts increasing again. There's probably a way to take advantage of this . . .

View attachment 63359


Norm

I understood what you meant.

But not a lot of anti-squat going on here:
753D2917-891A-4E13-891D-1005E16BFB8B.jpeg


The joke, to me at least, is the misnomer of anti-squat. Anything under 100% AS is actually dynamically ‘pro-squat’. 100% AS should really be renamed something else.
 
36
22
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Raytown, MO
So, is the Roush third link worth the $300 entry fee? I currently have the stock piece (2011 GT) with poly bushings along with lots of Maximum Motorsports other suspension pieces in a pretty much track only car (not full race).
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
835
618
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
I understood what you meant.

But not a lot of anti-squat going on here:
No, not a lot of anti-squat in your picture. Then again, 30% a-s isn't much.


The joke, to me at least, is the misnomer of anti-squat. Anything under 100% AS is actually dynamically ‘pro-squat’. 100% AS should really be renamed something else.
No. Anti-squat refers to the amount of squat that is eliminated geometrically relative to the amount of squat you'd get at 0% a-s. IOW, anti-squat is a measure of the amount of squat that's not happening because of the geometry rather than the amount of squat that you see. For a stock-height S197 that amounts to a reduction of only 30% of the squat you'd get at 0% a-s.

Pro-squat should be used to indicate a negative amount of "anti-squat", where there would be more squat than you'd get at 0%. That's geometrically possible but I doubt advisable.


Norm
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
We only disagree about the misnomer part.

You’re definition is 100% correct.

Yet the likelihood that anyone else could correctly restate any correct definition in lay terms is pretty small. But anyone can simply observe that that car squats under acceleration. That disconnect is why I call it a misnomer.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
835
618
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
We only disagree about the misnomer part.
Fair enough.

Yet the likelihood that anyone else could correctly restate any correct definition in lay terms is pretty small. But anyone can simply observe that that car squats under acceleration.
And that may be the real crux of the matter. Lay people are very apt to confuse cause with effect, and that gets in the way of their understanding of how whatever they're seeing is actually made to happen.

For example - how many people do you know of who think that squat causes rearward load transfer? Oops, sorry, for them that'd be rearward "weight transfer".

The best I can do is try to introduce them to what's really going on.


Norm
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
The best I can do is try to introduce them to what's really going on.
That only gets me into trouble. I’m slowly coming to terms with the probability that most people don’t care what’s really going on anymore. Find it on google or YouTube and call it good enough.
 

xr7

TMO Addict?
362
344
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Minnesota
Interesting to see no mention of the diff bushing in the update. Does this UCA pair well with the Steeda spherical diff bushing?
I agree, what bushing to run in the diff housing, std, GT500, poly or the Steeda spherical?
 
9
28
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Houston, TX
There is a 11-14; but i'd still choose (and did) the 05-10 UCA in my 2014 over pretty much any other 3rd link out there.
Hi Billy,

First, thanks for the fantastic write up!

Will you please elaborate on why you chose the 05-10 variant over the 11-14 model? It seems as though the 05-10 is the only one sold directly from Roush now, but there seems to be a few vendors out there still selling the 11-14 variant.

If it means anything, I have a bone stock 2011 GT Brembo with 145K miles that I am doing a full suspension and brake restoration/update on. Even when it was new, wheel hop was terrible - so this is one of the items I am considering implementing. The car will primarily be a Sunday cruiser and will also eventually be a "once in a while" backup/rain track day car. Suspension wise, it is getting the M-FR3A-MGTAA handling pack, Roush lower control arms, and all of the basic maintenance items (inner/outer tie rods, hubs, bearings, etc.)

Thanks!
 
Hi Billy,

First, thanks for the fantastic write up!

Will you please elaborate on why you chose the 05-10 variant over the 11-14 model? It seems as though the 05-10 is the only one sold directly from Roush now, but there seems to be a few vendors out there still selling the 11-14 variant.

If it means anything, I have a bone stock 2011 GT Brembo with 145K miles that I am doing a full suspension and brake restoration/update on. Even when it was new, wheel hop was terrible - so this is one of the items I am considering implementing. The car will primarily be a Sunday cruiser and will also eventually be a "once in a while" backup/rain track day car. Suspension wise, it is getting the M-FR3A-MGTAA handling pack, Roush lower control arms, and all of the basic maintenance items (inner/outer tie rods, hubs, bearings, etc.)

Thanks!
Because that was the version we raced and the only one I could get (and had to pay for myself). You'd think I could get one for free having driven for Roush for so long, wouldn't you?

But that's how good this link is and how unbiased I am. I paid for it for my personal car because of all the issues with other 3rd links listed in the article.

Yes the 11-14 would be better if you can find it. But the 05-10 is still better than pretty much any other 3rd link out there.
 
Hey guys,

Part 5 is now live:

Project Budget 400WHP S197 Mustang Track Car: Part 5 – Upgrading to an Eaton Truetrac LSD


" A performance Limited Slip Differential is a MUST for making 2005-2014 (S197) Mustangs handle predictably. We replace the weak factory LSD with Eaton’s TrueTrac helical (gear-driven) LSD which will transform the driving experience and character of the car.

000 COVER Eaton TrueTrac-X2.jpg

In the article:
-Stock LSD vs Torsen-style
-The tech behind Torque Bias Ratios
-Installation


-Billy
 
Hey guys,

Part 6 is now live:

Project Budget 400WHP S197 Mustang Track Car: Part 6 – Going Through the Suspension with Steeda


" This is where we defy the misconceptions and show how to make an S197 Mustang into a corner-carving track car. We are going to cover the pros and cons of Panhard Bars vs Watts Links, and go through the entire suspension with Steeda, picking the least expensive way to make our car fun to drive and competent on track."

20 Steeda LCA installed S197 Mustang-X2.jpg


In the article:
-Panhard Bar vs Watts Link Pros & Cons
-Analysis: Panhard Bar Geometry vs Watts Link
-Overview & Front S197 Geometry vs Extended Ball Joint LCA
-Front LCA Removal
-Front LCA Install
-Rear Axle Weight Removal
-Rear Lower Control Arm & Panhard Bar Install

-Billy
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
The 2012 and 2013 BOSS 302 street cars are arguably the best handling and performing solid-axle car ever built. These cars, as well as the 2013-14 GT500s and later Track Pack Mustang GTs were equipped with the Torsen T-2 differential.

With a 2.7 bias ratio, the Torsen T-2 is significantly better than the standard GT’s Traction-Lok clutch-type LSDs but they start to show their limitations at power and grip levels beyond a stock 444hp BOSS 302. The T-2 didn’t hold up well to track abuse on a 330hp FR500S race car using 245-width BFGoodrich R1 tires, an GT500’s can also greatly benefit from an LSD upgrade like the Eaton TrueTrac or T-2R with a 4.0:1 bias ratio.

I think some of this disagrees with what Torsen says. From their website:

"(T-2R) differentials are in the 2nd generation of design, now employing Equvex II parallel-axis gears, which make use of Split-Gear technology. Split-Gear, first introduced for the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302, uses a helical spline coupling to the side gears. This gives the model tunable friction characteristics, allowing it to meet OEM customers’ specific needs in a way no one else in the industry can."

https://torsen.com/how-it-works/

View attachment 51656
 
I think some of this disagrees with what Torsen says. From their website:

"(T-2R) differentials are in the 2nd generation of design, now employing Equvex II parallel-axis gears, which make use of Split-Gear technology. Split-Gear, first introduced for the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302, uses a helical spline coupling to the side gears. This gives the model tunable friction characteristics, allowing it to meet OEM customers’ specific needs in a way no one else in the industry can."

https://torsen.com/how-it-works/

View attachment 51656
Maybe they're saying the Equvex II gears was introduced on the BOSS (in the T2). But the BOSS road car and the BOSS 302S did not have a T-2R.
 

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