PSA: MT82 Fluid For Track Use

[JrFish]

What is/was the cost to rebuild and upgrade an MT-82? And...what I'm really asking is, why would you bother and not just swap in 1 of the Tremec options? With all the stories and questions on here regarding rebuilding and MT-82, only having to have to do it again shortly thereafter b/c of another failure, it just seems like the best path is to skip the hassle and the blow a few extra dollars a swap. That's what I've always planned to do when this one dies. Is there some downside (besides co$t) to the Tremecs that I didn't catch?

Second question, at what temp on my stock MT-82 am I really beginning to abuse and degrade the synchros? Because, regardless, I'm knocking on 260 on hot days.

 

[steveespo]

What is/was the cost to rebuild and upgrade an MT-82? And...what I'm really asking is, why would you bother and not just swap in 1 of the Tremec options? With all the stories and questions on here regarding rebuilding and MT-82, only having to have to do it again shortly thereafter b/c of another failure, it just seems like the best path is to skip the hassle and the blow a few extra dollars a swap. That's what I've always planned to do when this one dies. Is there some downside (besides co$t) to the Tremecs that I didn't catch?

Second question, at what temp on my stock MT-82 am I really beginning to abuse and degrade the synchros? Because, regardless, I'm knocking on 260 on hot days.

Anything above 220 is operating any synchronized transmission above its' design limits and the synchronizers will begin accelerated failure. Spending $6k isn't going to cure that, get a cooler loop on the car if you are seeing those temps. Rebuild on MT-82 ranges from $1000-upwards of $5000 for a custom build with stronger input shaft. Calmer stuff is hit or miss, but there are many decent shops doing them now. Full disclosure I am running a Calmer Stage 2 23 spline unit that has been in the car since April 2022. 71 days at the track, 15 race weekends.

 

[BackInBlack]

What is/was the cost to rebuild and upgrade an MT-82?

For me it was 3K including labor b/c I did all the, "while you're in there" stuff at the same time. If you drop the transmission yourself and give it to them they'll do it for 2K ballpark depending on what needs to be replaced. We did gears 2-5, all new carbon lined synchros, all new brass shifter forks and the input shaft. All gears and the input shaft are AMP components and are supposed to be upgrades over Getrag.

JrFish:

why would you bother and not just swap in 1 of the Tremec options?

My car is mostly a street car. What I go for is a trackable street car. While the 2.97 gearing on the T-56 Magnum is okay with me, I prefer the MT-82's gearing for the street even though it isn't perfect either. Also, I didn't want to lose original features like cruise control. I think it'll work for me. But if the transmission doesn't end up lasting long, I will put a Tremec in there next time. So far, I'm pretty happy with the rebuild, and TX Drivetrain has been great to work with.

 

[JrFish]

Thanks y'all! Good info all around!

 

[Mad Hatter]

I was waiting for your input, I know you’ve been down this road.

I would whip it out and fix it before it gets worse. It probably has some heat damage already and its better to swap the syncros now (upgraded), then to wait for the gears to go as well.

 

[Fabman]

I would whip it out and fix it before it gets worse. It probably has some heat damage already and its better to swap the syncros now (upgraded), then to wait for the gears to go as well.

its my sons car and he's a little bit monetarily challenged at the moment, but I will forward the info. Thanks.

 

[BackInBlack]

its my sons car and he's a little bit monetarily challenged at the moment, but I will forward the info. Thanks.

Good luck Son of Frankenstang!

 

[stevbd]

What is/was the cost to rebuild and upgrade an MT-82? And...what I'm really asking is, why would you bother and not just swap in 1 of the Tremec options? With all the stories and questions on here regarding rebuilding and MT-82, only having to have to do it again shortly thereafter b/c of another failure, it just seems like the best path is to skip the hassle and the blow a few extra dollars a swap. That's what I've always planned to do when this one dies. Is there some downside (besides co$t) to the Tremecs that I didn't catch?

Second question, at what temp on my stock MT-82 am I really beginning to abuse and degrade the synchros? Because, regardless, I'm knocking on 260 on hot days.

I'm no expert but the potential downsides of the Magnum XL as I understand them are a little heavier, more $$$, and requires a new driveshaft, clutch (but you will replace that in any event), and rear diff gears. The Tremec 3160 from the GT350/Mach 1 is a nice looking option, I believe it has more synchros than the MT82 and some 3160s have the built in cooler but for some reason not as many people seem to swap it into S197's.... Not sure of details. The original MT82 has nice gear spacing and appears to hold up well to lighter duty track work with stock-ish torque levels provided you get a proper rebuild, the standard upgraded parts, and (this is key) a proper clutch. MGW shifter a good addition also. I guess ultimately it just depends how hard you push it. I have 190k miles and probably 50-ish track days in advanced DE on my totally stock 2011 GT, never opened the trans or engine and still on the original clutch. Just writing that I guess I drive like a wimp lol but they hold up pretty well depending on what you are trying to do.

 

[BackInBlack]

I have 190k miles and probably 50-ish track days

Pretty damn good. I hope my engine lasts that long. When I was researching coyotes for my build I was trying to estimate how long they last by looking at salvage vehicles with no damage and used cars and I concluded that a good number is in the low 200k's. What engine oil do you use?

 

[stevbd]

Pretty damn good. I hope my engine lasts that long. When I was researching coyotes for my build I was trying to estimate how long they last by looking at salvage vehicles with no damage and used cars and I concluded that a good number is in the low 200k's. What engine oil do you use?

M1 5W-30. I suspect a pretty big part of it is stock redline is 6900 and I rarely even hit that since the stock intake falls off after ~6500. Good for longevity I guess but I am missing out on a lot of fun and extra power. If I had a bigger track day budget I'd probably just build it to wind to the moon and rebuild as necessary. Longevity is boring!

 

[Mad Hatter]

M1 5W-30. I suspect a pretty big part of it is stock redline is 6900 and I rarely even hit that since the stock intake falls off after ~6500. Good for longevity I guess but I am missing out on a lot of fun and extra power. If I had a bigger track day budget I'd probably just build it to wind to the moon and rebuild as necessary. Longevity is boring!

totally agree... going over 7500 is were all the fun starts... But the wallet does suffer.

 

[EF1]

M1 5W-30. I suspect a pretty big part of it is stock redline is 6900 and I rarely even hit that since the stock intake falls off after ~6500. Good for longevity I guess but I am missing out on a lot of fun and extra power. If I had a bigger track day budget I'd probably just build it to wind to the moon and rebuild as necessary. Longevity is boring!

The stock redline is a big part of MT82 life span. I got 90k miles and 40+ track days out of my original MT82 and stock clutch running Redline MTL. Only motor mods were a Steeda cai and canned tune with a 7000 rpm redline. I added a ported boss intake and throttle body and retuned with a 7400 rpm redline. The car was a lot more fun and drove fine on the street. 5 minutes into the first track session with the new set up my clutch stuck to the floor and would not come up without shutting off the car. Got it off track and checked things out. No leaks and everything felt good on the street still. Tried to go back out the next session and a same thing. I parked the car for the weekend to prevent damaging the MT82 and helped friends for the weekend.

I pulled the trans and the clutch lining was still about half the original thickness. Due to the mileage and all the horror stories I had heard about the MT82 I sent it in for a stage 2 build as a preventative measure. Calimer's commented on how good it looked and that it really didn't need to be rebuilt. It was there and torn down so I had them do it anyway. I got less than 1500 miles on it with 1 track day and 4th gear shattered on the street. I could not stomach giving Calimer any more money and sourced a Tremec T56 Magnum XL. I am convinced if I would have left the MT82 alone and just replaced the clutch I would still be driving it.

 

[EF1]

What is/was the cost to rebuild and upgrade an MT-82? And...what I'm really asking is, why would you bother and not just swap in 1 of the Tremec options? With all the stories and questions on here regarding rebuilding and MT-82, only having to have to do it again shortly thereafter b/c of another failure, it just seems like the best path is to skip the hassle and the blow a few extra dollars a swap. That's what I've always planned to do when this one dies. Is there some downside (besides co$t) to the Tremecs that I didn't catch?

Second question, at what temp on my stock MT-82 am I really beginning to abuse and degrade the synchros? Because, regardless, I'm knocking on 260 on hot days.

It does cost a bit more to swap to a Tremec T56 Magnum XL . A Calimer stage 2 rebuild is around $2,800 and a stage 3 is closer to $4,800. In comparison a Tremec T56 Magnum XL swap kit is around $4,200. The Tremec is new and the MT82's are rebuild cost using your trans. The T56 requires a 26 spline clutch where the MT82 utilizes a 23 spline disk. If you are replacing your clutch than it is a wash on cost. Just buy the correct spline for the trans you use. The T56 does require a different drive shaft, so plan on buying one. I bought one from ShaftMasters for a little more than what I sold the one piece I had behind the MT82. The factory shifter that comes with the Tremec isn't bad, but it was not as precise as the MGW I was used to. The MGW for the Tremec is quite a bit cheaper than one for the MT82 and feels much better than the stock Tremec shifter.

The only real draw back is the gear ratios are different. gears 1-4 on the Tremec are similar to 2-5 on the MT82. I used 3 and 4 mostly on track with the MT82. The Tremec was more 2 and 3, which is a harder shift to make. I ended up swapping my 3:55 gears for a set of 4:10's with a TrueTrack differential and am much happier.

 

[bronco100]

Is it possible to hook up the Tremec to an Ecoboost?

 

[Mad Hatter]

The stock redline is a big part of MT82 life span. I got 90k miles and 40+ track days out of my original MT82 and stock clutch running Redline MTL. Only motor mods were a Steeda cai and canned tune with a 7000 rpm redline. I added a ported boss intake and throttle body and retuned with a 7400 rpm redline. The car was a lot more fun and drove fine on the street. 5 minutes into the first track session with the new set up my clutch stuck to the floor and would not come up without shutting off the car. Got it off track and checked things out. No leaks and everything felt good on the street still. Tried to go back out the next session and a same thing. I parked the car for the weekend to prevent damaging the MT82 and helped friends for the weekend.

I pulled the trans and the clutch lining was still about half the original thickness. Due to the mileage and all the horror stories I had heard about the MT82 I sent it in for a stage 2 build as a preventative measure. Calimer's commented on how good it looked and that it really didn't need to be rebuilt. It was there and torn down so I had them do it anyway. I got less than 1500 miles on it with 1 track day and 4th gear shattered on the street. I could not stomach giving Calimer any more money and sourced a Tremec T56 Magnum XL. I am convinced if I would have left the MT82 alone and just replaced the clutch I would still be driving it.

I would agree that the Calimers can be a little hit and miss from what you see on TMO. But, I had a great Stage 1 that lasted two seasons with more or less stock Hp numbers (must have been at least 40 events). But upgrades Forced me to a stage 3, and out of what Calimer offers, that is the one to get, preferably with a 26 spline.

In my stock boss with only about 5000 miles on it, I lost 5th gear accelerating up a long hill going at 8/10. Needless to say, was very disappointed since it was my first new car in ages. Since then its been about 6 MT82 trannies of various types. In the end looks like I will stay with Calimers stage 3. Parts are not expensive and we have gotten pretty good at swapping trannies (,,and found a great gearbox specialist to rebuild them). The Stage 3 runs MUCH cooler then a regular MT82, something in the range of 75 to 100F less!!

The stock MT82's ran hotter then the engine, with temps over 300F. A cooler is required!

 

[bnight]

In my stock boss with only about 5000 miles on it, I lost 5th gear accelerating up a long hill going at 8/10.

Just to point out that this is not what you call mechanical sympathy nor to your trans, clutch or in that matter your engine. Accelerating on low revs in higher gear up a hill could be detrimental to your car as you find out.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Just to point out that this is not what you call mechanical sympathy nor to your trans, clutch or in that matter your engine. Accelerating on low revs in higher gear up a hill could be detrimental to your car as you find out.

Fifth is 1:1, it was a hill you could go up in 6th, My 1990 Alfa makes that shift all the time.. Dam those Alfas are tougher then mustangs? Not to mention shifting from 4th to 5th at 6500 rpm is not really low revs (8/10ths as I mentioned). If that is not mechanically sympathetic, then what the heck is it when its on the track? Shifts at 7800rpm with slicks etc etc. And Yes, some tracks have hills.

The problem with the MT82 is that its really at the torque limit for our heavier cars. Actually I would say its below the stated torque limit. That and shoddy parts do not make for a long lasting tranny. Funny, had a fleet of some 15 Landrover TD4 Defenders with the MT82 (Not made in China), And those things never failed. Even after 300.000km, never even a failed synchro with all of the kilometers on a really rough mountain road. Then again that's was 220 ft/lbs of torque a 2000 rpm.

 

[Dave_W]

The problem with the MT82 is that its really at the torque limit for our heavier cars. Actually I would say its below the stated torque limit. That and shoddy parts do not make for a long lasting tranny.

I have absolutely no evidence of this, but my gut feeling is that this is the case. The closer you get to the design limit of an item (be it an individual gear or the entire gearbox), the more important quality control is to make sure each part meets its design specification. A steel alloy being off by less than 0.1% in carbon, silicon, molybdenum, chromium, etc., can change it from one ASTM grade to a completely different one. On top of that, if the heat-treating process isn't precisely controlled, you can end up making an item more prone to shatter under shock loading, rather than tougher. If you don't have excellent quality conrol through the entire supply chain, from raw material through finished product, you end up with an inconsistent product.

 

[xr7]

Losing 5th seems to point to a poor design or a transmission that isn't adequate for the job. 5th gear is 1 to 1 so there actually isn't any gears involved, the input shaft is coupled directly to the output shaft by the synchronizer.

 

[bnight]

Fifth is 1:1, it was a hill you could go up in 6th, My 1990 Alfa makes that shift all the time.. Dam those Alfas are tougher then mustangs? Not to mention shifting from 4th to 5th at 6500 rpm is not really low revs (8/10ths as I mentioned). If that is not mechanically sympathetic, then what the heck is it when its on the track? Shifts at 7800rpm with slicks etc etc. And Yes, some tracks have hills.

The problem with the MT82 is that its really at the torque limit for our heavier cars. Actually I would say its below the stated torque limit. That and shoddy parts do not make for a long lasting tranny. Funny, had a fleet of some 15 Landrover TD4 Defenders with the MT82 (Not made in China), And those things never failed. Even after 300.000km, never even a failed synchro with all of the kilometers on a really rough mountain road. Then again that's was 220 ft/lbs of torque a 2000 rpm.

Sorry didn't realise you were talking track driving in that case yes that's fine in terms of mechanical sympathy.

I agree I think the issue is as our friends of Mitsubishi know that Getrag has no place in a performance car and in case of the MT82 that the torque rate is bellow the one of the engine and the MT82 is doing the best it can.

I have no issues with mine at least no more than the usual ones some leaks here in there in the first 2 seasons and a clutch job few seasons ago (Exedy Pro-Kit for like no money at all). The trans even survived a Money Shift top of 3rd to 2nd last season at like 10 000 rpm so I can't say to much bad about it.