Reliable 470 RWHP for road racing Coyote? What are some formulas to achieve it?

[Fabman]

E85 at your local gas station is not 85% ethanol. Depending on multiple factors, it may not even be close to 85%.
"E85 (or flex fuel) is a term that refers to high-level ethanol-gasoline blends containing 51% to 83% ethanol, depending on geography and season."

Alternative Fuels Data Center: E85 (Flex Fuel)

If you want consistency, you need to look for "race" E85, like from Sunoco - "Sunoco E85-R is blended to consistently contain 85% ethanol." Sunoco E85-R They also make E98 that is 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline.

Yeah, I know. Been doing this for many many years. I have a gauge in my car that reads the ethanol content and when it falls below a self imposed limit I pump it into a drum and use it for my truck. I ran 21 pounds of boost with this method and never missed a lick. Sure, bitchen e85 is better, but its also like 11.00/Gal and pump e85 is 3 bucks.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

There is a thread covering this question with some examples but I would have to search a bit to find it. But I can tell you what I did to get 475HP to the wheels.

CJ manifold with TB
L&M intake cams
LTH, no cats
Ford Racing intake
Meziere electric water pump (not necessary)
100 octane race tune

All work done by Revolution Auto in Maryland. Ran it all last year as hard as I could and it performed beautifully. Take away the water pump and lose about 10HP. Same for dropping to a 93 octane tune. So without those maybe I'm 460.

That's my recipe, did 468 to the tire (regular water pump, however). Ran like a top before I tore it down after 5 seasons (refreshing the valvesprings every two seasons). Everything looked good at teardown, too. Probably could have gone another couple seasons.

 

[docs302]

That's my recipe, did 468 to the tire (regular water pump, however). Ran like a top before I tore it down after 5 seasons (refreshing the valvesprings every two seasons). Everything looked good at teardown, too. Probably could have gone another couple seasons.

That makes me very happy. If Drew can beat the crap out of the motor for 5 seasons and not break anything I hope to have many more years of service on my block. Heads are not a big deal but I'd like to have fun and save my money for a while longer before having to drop 15K on a new motor.

 

[Fabman]

That's my recipe, did 468 to the tire (regular water pump, however). Ran like a top before I tore it down after 5 seasons (refreshing the valvesprings every two seasons). Everything looked good at teardown, too. Probably could have gone another couple seasons.

Drew, was that a stock rod/piston motor or forged?

 

[PaddyPrix]

That's my recipe, did 468 to the tire (regular water pump, however). Ran like a top before I tore it down after 5 seasons (refreshing the valvesprings every two seasons). Everything looked good at teardown, too. Probably could have gone another couple seasons.

Sweet, there's hope for me yet.

 

[2012-Boss]

Drew, was that a stock rod/piston motor or forged?

ArizonaBoss has an Aluminator short block.

My car made 484 to the rear wheels on Rev Auto's dyno with the CJ cams and pump gas. I still have the stock Boss short block and over 16K track miles. Even with the CJ cams and Intake, I try to shift at 7,500, but the motor will pull to 8,000 if you are not careful. Like ArizonaBoss, I replace my valve springs and timing components every couple of years. I am starting to consider a new fully forged short block sometime in the future.

I am still not sure how the OPs defines "reliable."

To me, upgrading / replacing oil pump and crank timing gears with billet units, installing a decent oil pan, increasing cooling capacity via a better radiator and large oil coolers, and replacing valve springs and timing components every couple of years as preventative maintenance is a reliable track car. But, others may define reliable as just changing the oil and filter after a track day. If the later is the approach, then I would agree that you should keep RPMs below 7,000 and it will be hard to hit the 470 whp mark.

 

[Fabman]

ArizonaBoss has an Aluminator short block.

My car made 484 to the rear wheels on Rev Auto's dyno with the CJ cams and pump gas. I still have the stock Boss short block and over 16K track miles. Even with the CJ cams and Intake, I try to shift at 7,500, but the motor will pull to 8,000 if you are not careful. Like ArizonaBoss, I replace my valve springs and timing components every couple of years. I am starting to consider a new fully forged short block sometime in the future.

I am still not sure how the OPs defines "reliable."

To me, upgrading / replacing oil pump and crank timing gears with billet units, installing a decent oil pan, increasing cooling capacity via a better radiator and large oil coolers, and replacing valve springs and timing components every couple of years as preventative maintenance is a reliable track car. But, others may define reliable as just changing the oil and filter after a track day. If the later is the approach, then I would agree that you should keep RPMs below 7,000 and it will be hard to hit the 470 whp mark.

I have a stock gen 2.
I did the Chromoly housing/forged gear oil pump, some really good crank scrapers and GT350s oil pan and setrab cooler but the rest of the interior is stock (save the L&M cams). Hoping that will get me through the season and I'll freshen it up with some forged internals for next year but only turning it 7000 rpm doesn't excite me very much....the reason I went to the coyote was for the additional rpm. My stroker 3 valve had the limiter set at 7400. Loosing 400 rpm AND throwing away 250 HP would be most disappointing.

 

[2012-Boss]

I have a stock gen 2.
I did the Chromoly housing/forged gear oil pump, some really good crank scrapers and GT350s oil pan and setrab cooler but the rest of the interior is stock (save the L&M cams). Hoping that will get me through the season and I'll freshen it up with some forged internals for next year but only turning it 7000 rpm doesn't excite me very much....the reason I went to the coyote was for the additional rpm. My stroker 3 valve had the limiter set at 7400. Loosing 400 rpm AND throwing away 250 HP would be most disappointing.

You can spin a Gen 2 to 7500. The internals are pretty similar to the Gen 1 Boss motor and it has the Boss valve springs. I helped put a Gen 2 in an S197 with CJ cams, CJ intake, Gen 1 timing components and long tubes. It makes power comparable to mine and regularly sees 7500. Prior to the motor being installed in the S197, it was in a S550 also turning 7,500.

 

[Impact302]

I am not really sure the dyno brand. They say they are in the top 20 dyno shops in the US. I know they are a serious shop for the racers and charge the $ for sure. The owner said my motor was one of the strongest stock coyotes he has seen. Here is their link. https://dynocomp.com/dyno-tuning/ maybe it says what kind they use.

Just a note on my set up. Stock 2015 with 62k miles. Steeda closed air intake, corsa exreme cat back system and a 91 octane DynoComp tune. 459 rear wheel hp and 419 torque.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but 459 wheel and 419 torque isn’t possible on intake and tune car . Think about it this way , your car makes 435 crank stock (on 93 octane ) . Which means at the wheels you are under 400HP on 91 .
Not knocking your car , but unfortunately dynos don’t tell you everything. I’ve seen 50 HP variances from dyno to dyno

if you get bored have another shop , that isn’t tuning your cad and doesn’t know your numbers put it on the dyno and see what happens !
Or maybe I’m wrong and it’s a freak but people keep saying that about my car .

 

[blacksheep-1]

E98 is what I'm most familiar with, as used in the Indycar series. We did tons of burn tests with it at our training grounds.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but 459 wheel and 419 torque isn’t possible on intake and tune car . Think about it this way , your car makes 435 crank stock (on 93 octane ) . Which means at the wheels you are under 400HP on 91 .
Not knocking your car , but unfortunately dynos don’t tell you everything. I’ve seen 50 HP variances from dyno to dyno

if you get bored have another shop , that isn’t tuning your cad and doesn’t know your numbers put it on the dyno and see what happens !
Or maybe I’m wrong and it’s a freak but people keep saying that about my car .

I don't know if those numbers are perhaps overstated, but because of the dyno, they're perhaps potentially overstated by design.

NASA requires all FWD/RWD measurements to be done on Dynojet, but has additional options for other types, which come with a 1.1 multiplier, which with power/weight classifications is actually something you don't want. So, for the sake of argument, if you were on a non-Dynojet, but get 500rwhp on a Dynojet, you might read closer to 550rwhp, at least, that's what NASA believes is a good balance. I guess then it comes down to how well you think NASA does balancing things out, but it's a start.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/12967/NASA_ST-TT_Dyno_Certification_Form--10-1-20.pdf

For the sake of comparison, on a Dynojet, I pulled 466rwhp / 430rwtq with just e85, an e85 tune, and longtubes on my 2018 (Gen3) which seems alright. Stock 2018 GT are about 415-420rwhp, so 45-50rwhp (~65hp) for longtubes and a race tune isn't too far fetched. GT350's dyno right around 465 as well, and I being an average-ish driver sounds about right as I can at least keep up with them on the track, further validating at least my readings. If you've got a Gen 2 with those mods, I'd wonder if it's overstated by 10%, which has you at about 415rwhp, or ~460hp, which is what a stock Gen3 does, and with CAI, catback, and a tune, gaining 25-35hp from those and staying on pump gas sounds more believable.

That's my unprompted .02 anyhow.