SN95 RinerAutomotive's CAM-T Mustang Build Thread Profile - SN95 Mustangs

[RinerAuto]

It's March which means autocross events are starting back up. I was hoping to make an event last weekend as a test day. But I didn't have the car ready. There are several reasons why it wasn't ready but the main one is the local driveshaft shop is taking forever. They needed to replace the tube, but they were having issues welding it. They have had it since the end of January. I decided to give up on that option for now and bought a new ford racing aluminum driveshaft with 31 spline yoke. I was having the shop shorten the shaft a 1/2", but luckily I can still fit a stock length it's just at it's limit.



With the addition of more connections to the RaceCapture I decided to relocate it from on the tunnel between the shifter and emergency brake to behind the dash. There are some things to consider when choosing a location. I wanted to mount the RaceCapture level, connectors towards the front, on the centerline of the car, in the cabin, solid mounting, and easy cable routing. In order to mount under the dash I needed to build a bracket. But it needs to be solid enough that it doesn't introduce any vibrations. The bracket is thick with 3 points of attachment. I also picked a location for the ShiftX3, covering the broken clock on the dash. All I have left to do know is add buttons to power the unit on and enable datalogging. I may or may not do a dedicated video about this.

 

[RinerAuto]

Last thing to get the car back driving, front shocks. When I first bought the JRi shocks 2 years ago I went with the standard configuration. Since then I have learned a little bit about shocks. I reached back out to JRi about re-valve and some upgrades. For a small fee of course they would be happy to upgrade the shocks. I decided to change the piston from a linear style to a digressive style, which would be better for racing. I also added a remote reservoir which adds low speed compression adjustment. We'll see if these help make the car faster. I really need to get some adjustable rear shocks though.

 

[Dave_W]

Digressive valving is definitely the way to go. Be careful with the reservoir clamps - with them in the middle of the can, if you tighten them too much you can "belly" the can and jam the piston. If you have room, you might want to slide the can down so the clamp is close to the end with the adjuster, so the walls have the extra support of the end cap.

 

[RinerAuto]

Digressive valving is definitely the way to go. Be careful with the reservoir clamps - with them in the middle of the can, if you tighten them too much you can "belly" the can and jam the piston. If you have room, you might want to slide the can down so the clamp is close to the end with the adjuster, so the walls have the extra support of the end cap.

Oh I didn't realize the piston moved to the reservoir. Thanks for the heads up Dave. Luckily I had the clamps just tight enough to not slide but I just moved them to the end. I can add a second clamp to better support as well.

I just got to the shock absorber section in "Drive to Win" and now better understand what the reservoir does.

Related to the reservoir location I moved the passenger side also down to the frame. Just driving around on the street I noticed a big temperature difference with it being above the exhaust.

 

[kitsune1324]

Have you had any chance to play with the TKX much? I'm looking at grabbing one vs the magnum

 

[RinerAuto]

Have you had any chance to play with the TKX much? I'm looking at grabbing one vs the magnum

I've done a couple events and some road driving. It shifts like a transmission should. No vibrations, so that's finally good.

The only issue I have right now is grinding going into reverse, but I think I need to adjust the clutch cable some more. It's smooth going into reverse if I shift to another gear first so that tells me the clutch is dragging.

 

[RinerAuto]

I've done a couple events so far this year.

First event was the Red Hills National Tour. I didn't want this to be my first event but I didn't have the car ready for the earlier local events. So I drove 11 hours with an untested car with <100 hours of street driving. My class only had one other driver. My car had more suspension his had a lot more horsepower. I was feeling confident even though I hadn't driven the car yet with all the changes. After day 1 I had over a 1 second lead. Day 2 started well, but I didn't find the time as quickly. I was a tenth slower than my competition on Day 2, but due to my lead from Day 1 I won my first nation tour! Plus I got to meet Rob Lewis and talk suspension some with him. His Outlaw fox body is a crazy build and insanely fast.

I followed up the national tour with two local events. The local clubs do bump classes which is nice to have full classes but the disparity in cars is usually higher. My car being quick and a decent PAX is tough to beat. But some of the local CAM-T cars just want to compete with other CAM-T cars. We decided to do our own competition, CAM Jam! It's piggybacking on several local events but will just be CAM-T cars. I missed the first event but luckily there will be 2 drops out of 10 events in total. So far I have placed first for 2 of the first 3 events. The overall PAX championship is going to be tough though.

Videos for each event are on my YouTube.

 

[RinerAuto]

I've been reading a lot lately (books, forums, articles) on suspension design, mainly solid rear axle. If I am able to get on the throttle earlier or stay in the throttle more then I'll be faster. Rear suspension I think is simpler than the front, but seems there is less information out there and 100s of different opinions.

I was under the impression that IRS was the way to go as long it wasn't a stock Cobra IRS. But I'm now thinking a SRA can be just as competitive. The question becomes competitive against what? Anyone that has been following along has noticed I've started branching out to bigger events, which brings better competition. So competitive against what....everything. People are starting to build tube chassis cars with custom suspension with the shell of an old muscle car on top. This is completely legal in the current CAM ruleset. It's ok to lose because I suck at driving (been there many of times), but I don't want to lose because of the car.

Is IRS the holy grail...maybe. But maybe I should give the SRA a fighting chance before making that decision. In some of that aforementioned reading I learned that the stock differential can tolerate some angle, 0.5 deg maybe 1 deg. I've pulled the axle out and I'm going to try adding some negative camber and toe in to it. I don't plan to make a video for this as I'm not sure it will work (although others have done it). Plus I don't want everyone to start doing it. (I know this forum is public but less people read my post than watch the videos)

Know I just need to find/buy a torch. I used to have one but it was stolen from my garage years ago, living in the hood problems....

 

[Dave_W]

People are starting to build tube chassis cars with custom suspension with the shell of an old muscle car on top. This is completely legal in the current CAM ruleset.

I could see this coming when they started the class. Years ago, I was talking to someone on the SCCA Street Mod Committee about people complaining that the cost of Street Mod was getting out of hand, while the BoD had just added the CAM classes with a wide-open rule set. Their reply was something like, "Once people actually start building cars to the limit of the CAM rules, Street Mod will look positively frugal."

The 200TW tire was advertised by the rules-makers as being a limit on CAM builds. The tire was supposed to limit the horsepower you could put to the ground, limiting the engine build expense. While that's true, 200TW tires have gotten better, and the physics of size, low CG, and light weight still rule. So even if the tires limit horsepower, they don't limit those other factors, and not much else in the CAM rules do, either. Yes, there's minimum weight, but the rules let you put as much as possible at the bottom of the car in the center for low CG and low Moment of Inertia

The most (in)famous correlation to where I see a full-tilt CAM build going is is the DMod Lotus Europa built by Larry Schauf and driven to multiple Solo Nats wins by John Ames - a formula-type chassis with a carbon fiber one-piece body that weighs ~80 lbs. It has no doors - the driver enters/exits though a hole in the roof or the windsheild opening. It has a Cosworth BDx race engine, a Hewland racing transaxle, and formula car suspension. The only actual Europa parts in the car are the chassis backbone, which is completely non-functional, and a portion of the floor pan.
I found some pictures here, scroll to the bottom for a few engine & suspension shots -

Lotus Europa DMOD

Explore this photo album by spitfun1 on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Take that example and use a Mustang II body. Stuff in a twin-turbo all-aluminum V6 - something in the 600-800HP range should do nicely - and a real sequential box with no-lift shift. Then add only what's required by the CAM rules. Note that the rules say the wheelbase has to stay the same, but it doesn't mention track width - take a 12" slice out the length car to narrow it for faster speeds in slaloms. When done, put enough ballast in the floorpan to make minimum weight.

 

[JDee]

People are spending that kind of dough to run parking lot slaloms? You can't build cars like that for peanuts.
That's insane. IMHO.
Put it on a big boy track and see what happens over a 20 or 30 minute session.
I don't get it, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I have taken some of my W2W track buddies over to Lincoln, Nebraska and had them try their hand at Autocrossing and often I had them plop their butts down in the passenger seat of my son's EVO 9 to get the feel of a well set up car. One of our members even sent me a fun note about an individual who I gave a ride to in the Mitsubeastie whose comment about the run through the cones being the most violent ride he had ever taken. Most folks find once they try a well run autocross that it can be enormous fun and yes they are different, but I will stand up for those who participate in the sport. I have found over the years that autocrossers usually become very good road racers in a short amount of time --- they already know how to drive the line over and over and hit their spots.

Driving through a 12 ft cone designed gate at 60-75 mph , followed by offset gates at 50 mph, right before a 45 mph tight sweeper can be a exercise in car control and surprisingly much of it translates over to the track. There are alot more corners on tracks that are 35-55 mph than many of us realize and for those who kill cones whipping through those sections may seem wide open, yet the discipline learned means they habitually stay the right often tight line. It is pretty amazing how many Pylon Pulverizers go on to become extremely fast Time Trailers and Road Racers. Our Stan Whitney is a good example on this site and for those that read auto rags often the name Randy Pobst is well known and he got his start autocrossing with the SCCA.

I started cone careening in 1981 and it led me to eventually do Time Trials , W2W and even a few Pro events, yet going back to Autocrossing is still a fun exercise as it is so much more mental. I find that brain input helps me process a road course quite easily in comparison because though the speed is faster it almost feels in slow motion compared to an autocross.

I would suggest to anyone who wishes to track their car to try autocrossing first as it does lay down some solid groundwork, and there are many of us who continue to do both. Car control and precision at a slower speed acclimates many a driver to understanding his car's dynamics and once on a road course the main lesson can often be just learning to do it at faster speeds and different braking points.

The old adage that an " Autocrosser can do a road course fairly easily , but a Road Racer can't Autocross easily ." That damn adage is so true as even after starting I find translating back to autocrossing after years of running on road courses is more difficult ( plus ye olde reflexes are slower ), yet even today going to a Time Trial seems like driving in slow motion in comparison.

So, try I sometime and I will admit the tiny little courses for some Autocrosses are less challenging , the ones held at many sites ( like the Lincoln,Ne. Nationals area ) are exhilarating and take intense focus. It is alot better memory stimulant than using Prevagen, ha,ha!

 

[Fabman]

I have taken some of my W2W track buddies over to Lincoln, Nebraska and had them try their hand at Autocrossing and often I had them plop their butts down in the passenger seat of my son's EVO 9 to get the feel of a well set up car. One of our members even sent me a fun note about an individual who I gave a ride to in the Mitsubeastie whose comment about the run through the cones being the most violent ride he had ever taken. Most folks find once they try a well run autocross that it can be enormous fun and yes they are different, but I will stand up for those who participate in the sport. I have found over the years that autocrossers usually become very good road racers in a short amount of time --- they already know how to drive the line over and over and hit their spots.

Driving through a 12 ft cone designed gate at 60-75 mph , followed by offset gates at 50 mph, right before a 45 mph tight sweeper can be a exercise in car control and surprisingly much of it translates over to the track. There are alot more corners on tracks that are 35-55 mph than many of us realize and for those who kill cones whipping through those sections may seem wide open, yet the discipline learned means they habitually stay the right often tight line. It is pretty amazing how many Pylon Pulverizers go on to become extremely fast Time Trailers and Road Racers. Our Stan Whitney is a good example on this site and for those that read auto rags often the name Randy Pobst is well known and he got his start autocrossing with the SCCA.

I started cone careening in 1981 and it led me to eventually do Time Trials , W2W and even a few Pro events, yet going back to Autocrossing is still a fun exercise as it is so much more mental. I find that brain input helps me process a road course quite easily in comparison because though the speed is faster it almost feels in slow motion compared to an autocross.

I would suggest to anyone who wishes to track their car to try autocrossing first as it does lay down some solid groundwork, and there are many of us who continue to do both. Car control and precision at a slower speed acclimates many a driver to understanding his car's dynamics and once on a road course the main lesson can often be just learning to do it at faster speeds and different braking points.

The old adage that an " Autocrosser can do a road course fairly easily , but a Road Racer can't Autocross easily ." That damn adage is so true as even after starting I find translating back to autocrossing after years of running on road courses is more difficult ( plus ye olde reflexes are slower ), yet even today going to a Time Trial seems like driving in slow motion in comparison.

So, try I sometime and I will admit the tiny little courses for some Autocrosses are less challenging , the ones held at many sites ( like the Lincoln,Ne. Nationals area ) are exhilarating and take intense focus. It is alot better memory stimulant than using Prevagen, ha,ha!

Agree completely. Every racing discipline you learn from is another arrow in your quiver, another tool in your tool box so to speak. I’ve competed in many different forms of racing from autocross to off road to drag racing to oval track track and now road racing. Every experience taught me something valuable.

 

[RinerAuto]

I could see this coming when they started the class. Years ago, I was talking to someone on the SCCA Street Mod Committee about people complaining that the cost of Street Mod was getting out of hand, while the BoD had just added the CAM classes with a wide-open rule set. Their reply was something like, "Once people actually start building cars to the limit of the CAM rules, Street Mod will look positively frugal."

The 200TW tire was advertised by the rules-makers as being a limit on CAM builds. The tire was supposed to limit the horsepower you could put to the ground, limiting the engine build expense. While that's true, 200TW tires have gotten better, and the physics of size, low CG, and light weight still rule. So even if the tires limit horsepower, they don't limit those other factors, and not much else in the CAM rules do, either. Yes, there's minimum weight, but the rules let you put as much as possible at the bottom of the car in the center for low CG and low Moment of Inertia

The most (in)famous correlation to where I see a full-tilt CAM build going is is the DMod Lotus Europa built by Larry Schauf and driven to multiple Solo Nats wins by John Ames - a formula-type chassis with a carbon fiber one-piece body that weighs ~80 lbs. It has no doors - the driver enters/exits though a hole in the roof or the windsheild opening. It has a Cosworth BDx race engine, a Hewland racing transaxle, and formula car suspension. The only actual Europa parts in the car are the chassis backbone, which is completely non-functional, and a portion of the floor pan.
I found some pictures here, scroll to the bottom for a few engine & suspension shots -

Lotus Europa DMOD

Explore this photo album by spitfun1 on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Take that example and use a Mustang II body. Stuff in a twin-turbo all-aluminum V6 - something in the 600-800HP range should do nicely - and a real sequential box with no-lift shift. Then add only what's required by the CAM rules. Note that the rules say the wheelbase has to stay the same, but it doesn't mention track width - take a 12" slice out the length car to narrow it for faster speeds in slaloms. When done, put enough ballast in the floorpan to make minimum weight.

CAM is starting to get the attention of the builders. I'm still very happy with the class and don't want to be restricted by rules. Hopefully it doesn't start getting more restrictions applied to it to make the racing "fair". I think with the right build and driver a production body car can compete with a tube chassis car. (I hope at least).

That's an insane Lotus, very cool.

 

[RinerAuto]

People are spending that kind of dough to run parking lot slaloms? You can't build cars like that for peanuts.
That's insane. IMHO.
Put it on a big boy track and see what happens over a 20 or 30 minute session.
I don't get it, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

Autocross is just as competitive as road racing. I think of it this way. Autocross is like F1 qualifying, trying to get that perfect run to get the fastest time. Road race is like the F1 race, trying to beat the other people on track. The best car/setup/driver/etc may not be the quickest at qualifying but good at racing distance or vice versa.

There are several $100k builds that autocross cars. Yea autocross is lower impact but you'd be surprised how demanding it is on tires, brakes, engines, and such. My car sometimes get close to overheating on autocross in the summer, where if it air inlet flow at road race speeds it would stay within spec.

 

[RinerAuto]

I have taken some of my W2W track buddies over to Lincoln, Nebraska and had them try their hand at Autocrossing and often I had them plop their butts down in the passenger seat of my son's EVO 9 to get the feel of a well set up car. One of our members even sent me a fun note about an individual who I gave a ride to in the Mitsubeastie whose comment about the run through the cones being the most violent ride he had ever taken. Most folks find once they try a well run autocross that it can be enormous fun and yes they are different, but I will stand up for those who participate in the sport. I have found over the years that autocrossers usually become very good road racers in a short amount of time --- they already know how to drive the line over and over and hit their spots.

Driving through a 12 ft cone designed gate at 60-75 mph , followed by offset gates at 50 mph, right before a 45 mph tight sweeper can be a exercise in car control and surprisingly much of it translates over to the track. There are alot more corners on tracks that are 35-55 mph than many of us realize and for those who kill cones whipping through those sections may seem wide open, yet the discipline learned means they habitually stay the right often tight line. It is pretty amazing how many Pylon Pulverizers go on to become extremely fast Time Trailers and Road Racers. Our Stan Whitney is a good example on this site and for those that read auto rags often the name Randy Pobst is well known and he got his start autocrossing with the SCCA.

I started cone careening in 1981 and it led me to eventually do Time Trials , W2W and even a few Pro events, yet going back to Autocrossing is still a fun exercise as it is so much more mental. I find that brain input helps me process a road course quite easily in comparison because though the speed is faster it almost feels in slow motion compared to an autocross.

I would suggest to anyone who wishes to track their car to try autocrossing first as it does lay down some solid groundwork, and there are many of us who continue to do both. Car control and precision at a slower speed acclimates many a driver to understanding his car's dynamics and once on a road course the main lesson can often be just learning to do it at faster speeds and different braking points.

The old adage that an " Autocrosser can do a road course fairly easily , but a Road Racer can't Autocross easily ." That damn adage is so true as even after starting I find translating back to autocrossing after years of running on road courses is more difficult ( plus ye olde reflexes are slower ), yet even today going to a Time Trial seems like driving in slow motion in comparison.

So, try I sometime and I will admit the tiny little courses for some Autocrosses are less challenging , the ones held at many sites ( like the Lincoln,Ne. Nationals area ) are exhilarating and take intense focus. It is alot better memory stimulant than using Prevagen, ha,ha!

Bill couldn't have said it any better. Should be a sticky somewhere. Learning car control is good no matter how you do it. But autocross is the best

I like what you said about it being much more mental. That is what I'm really working on this year and should make me more consistent. I put some trigger phrases in the car to help get into the mindset.

I remember seeing a meme somewhere that autocrossing is like being on meth. There is so much going on where road racing is about being smooth. Not saying shouldn't be smooth when autocrossing.

The original plan for this car was to be a W2W racecar, but got bit by the autocross bug. The risk vs reward also is no longer there for me for road racing. Costs can also ramp up significantly. I'm seeing that following other people that are jumping up to time trials.

 

[Fabman]

Autocross is just as competitive as road racing. I think of it this way. Autocross is like F1 qualifying, trying to get that perfect run to get the fastest time. Road race is like the F1 race, trying to beat the other people on track. The best car/setup/driver/etc may not be the quickest at qualifying but good at racing distance or vice versa.

Boom. ^^^This exactly. ^^^
My autocross experience was invaluable in my skillset and so was my oval track. Its been a good combination for me.
Much respect to you cone killers and TT drivers. Its a very technical sport and difficult to master. Love watching you excell at this.

 

[RinerAuto]

Boom. ^^^This exactly. ^^^
My autocross experience was invaluable in my skillset and so was my oval track. Its been a good combination for me.
Much respect to you cone killers and TT drivers. Its a very technical sport and difficult to master. Love watching you excell at this.

I'm learning there is so much similarity to oval track racing. I wish I knew more about that type of racing and car setup. I have autocrossed with some people that did oval track and they were super quick. Even though we threw right turns at them, they have a good feeling of driving on the edge of traction.

 

[Fabman]

I'm learning there is so much similarity to oval track racing. I wish I knew more about that type of racing and car setup. I have autocrossed with some people that did oval track and they were super quick. Even though we threw right turns at them, they have a good feeling of driving on the edge of traction.

It’s great training. All we do is turn left and fight over real estate, so you get good at it.
It’s basically One turn so you run it to the limits and then push a little more with cars all around you and one pushing on your bumper. It’s a cross between high speed chess, Ballet and football. You gotta be nimble but you better be tough….and smart. My experience with w2w road racing is that many are not comfortable in close quarters or setting up passes, slicing and dicing make them nervous. At nationals, the guy with the Kenny Brown car came up to me and said “I asked 6 different people about you and they all said the same thing….Sal is very good at beating guys with more power than he has”.
I couldn’t argue with that.

 

[RinerAuto]

It’s great training. All we do is turn left and fight over real estate, so you get good at it.
It’s basically One turn so you run it to the limits and then push a little more with cars all around you and one pushing on your bumper. It’s a cross between high speed chess, Ballet and football. You gotta be nimble but you better be tough….and smart. My experience with w2w road racing is that many are not comfortable in close quarters or setting up passes, slicing and dicing make them nervous. At nationals, the guy with the Kenny Brown car came up to me and said “I asked 6 different people about you and they all said the same thing….Sal is very good at beating guys with more power than he has”.
I couldn’t argue with that.

Close quarters was one of the reasons I wanted to do W2W at one point. I thought it would be fun and driving during rush hour around here sometimes feels like W2W racing. I like in racing there are rules, like giving space and having to be a certain portion alongside. I try to follow some of those same rules during normal driving, but its hard when others don't follow the same rules.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Getting a Race License and as you note " Rules " is why some of us can even feel a higher degree of safety running at speed than with a bunch of iPhone chatting Wackdoodles pedaling at 70 mph.