SN95 RinerAutomotive's CAM-T Mustang Build Thread Profile - SN95 Mustangs

[Fabman]

Close quarters was one of the reasons I wanted to do W2W at one point. I thought it would be fun and driving during rush hour around here sometimes feels like W2W racing. I like in racing there are rules, like giving space and having to be a certain portion alongside. I try to follow some of those same rules during normal driving, but its hard when others don't follow the same rules.

Qualifying is nice but its lonely. I love the battle....

 

[Jungle_Jim]

Getting a Race License and as you note " Rules " is why some of us can even feel a higher degree of safety running at speed than with a bunch of iPhone chatting Wackdoodles pedaling at 70 mph.

I feel more comfortable at 90+ MPH through T12 at grattan than I do at 70mph straight down an interstate with the rest of the eedjiots. That one hit me pretty hard when i started doing HDPE lol.

I was under the impression that IRS was the way to go as long it wasn't a stock Cobra IRS. But I'm now thinking a SRA can be just as competitive. The question becomes competitive against what? Anyone that has been following along has noticed I've started branching out to bigger events, which brings better competition. So competitive against what....everything. People are starting to build tube chassis cars with custom suspension with the shell of an old muscle car on top. This is completely legal in the current CAM ruleset. It's ok to lose because I suck at driving (been there many of times), but I don't want to lose because of the car.

This is my personal philosophy but....let it be competitive to whatever you want it to be. My car doesn't fit into "vintage" rules but it'll get back there eventually. It's currently just a matter of the "cheapest way to go fast, safely". Otherwise I'm just trying to get better at the car and "get gud", have seat time and get experience. Like you, I want to work into w2w (vintage) eventually and it's all just learning at this point. I say if you enjoy the build as much as the drive, then do what you'd like to and just let it fall into any category it does, regardless of how "competitive" it may be. I also think that if someone's worried about being repeatedly competitive, then pick out a spec class; there's lots out there. Otherwise even within a "range" of class there will be extremes and """"""someone can always have the faster car""""""""". However, a good driver will always be good regardless of the car so, class spec doesn't mean to much to me. That's FAR from a humble brag lolol, just saying I'd rather focus on ME than being fit into a class.

I agree with others that every discipline is another experience but the "spend factor" is why i enjoyed RallyX much more than AutoX. Sure, there are some great grassroots cars in the AX scene but RX just always felt a little more true to intent for the groups i ran with. Drift is having a similar issue right now; lots of folks in the pro-am level that are building these wild cars that are overbuilt to hell and back. A lot of the "grassroots" cars wouldn't even be prospec compliant, vs some of the FD drivers like Chelsea can get in a clapped out e36 and drive laps around them lolol.

 

[RinerAuto]

No turning back now. Straight axle is no longer straight

 

[DaveW]

I am far from a 8.8 expert, but I think you need to weld those axle tubes to the pumpkin? (and re heat/bend the axle)

 

[RinerAuto]

I am far from a 8.8 expert, but I think you need to weld those axle tubes to the pumpkin? (and re heat/bend the axle)

I have heard drag racers do that, but I didn't think I was making enough power to rotate the axles tubes. There are spot welds from factory.

Would need to reheat/bend tubes afterwards due to the inputted heat from welding tube to pumpkin?

 

[Fabman]

I have heard drag racers do that, but I didn't think I was making enough power to rotate the axles tubes. There are spot welds from factory.

Would need to reheat/bend tubes afterwards due to the inputted heat from welding tube to pumpkin?

Road racers do this too.
The constant loading and unloading sometimes breaks the spot welds and the tubes start to slide out. I've had it happen.
Anytime you heat or weld on a rear end housing straightness needs to be checked.

 

[DaveW]

Road racers do this too.
The constant loading and unloading sometimes breaks the spot welds and the tubes start to slide out. I've had it happen.
Anytime you heat or weld on a rear end housing straightness needs to be checked.

x3 on this. Back in the CP/EM days I had to check the 9inch housing every off season, it would bend itself all around and that spot weld connection on an 8.8 is not as strong as a 9 inch housing.

And yeah, every time you weld on the silly housing, you have to check them. PITA #camberedlife

DaveW

 

[RinerAuto]

Road racers do this too.
The constant loading and unloading sometimes breaks the spot welds and the tubes start to slide out. I've had it happen.
Anytime you heat or weld on a rear end housing straightness needs to be checked.

x3 on this. Back in the CP/EM days I had to check the 9inch housing every off season, it would bend itself all around and that spot weld connection on an 8.8 is not as strong as a 9 inch housing.

And yeah, every time you weld on the silly housing, you have to check them. PITA #camberedlife

DaveW

I put a couple welds on each tube to center section. Camber is perfect on each side at -0.5 deg. Toe is a little high at a total of 0.25" toe in, but at least its in the right direction.

I'll note this is all a temporary solution until I can afford to get a proper cambered rear axle.

While the rearend was out I decided to weigh it so I could have a better idea of unsprung weight. This is minus calipers and the partial weight of control arms, torque arm, and coilovers.

 

[Fabman]

I put a couple welds on each tube to center section. Camber is perfect on each side at -0.5 deg. Toe is a little high at a total of 0.25" toe in, but at least its in the right direction.
View attachment 102279View attachment 102280
I'll note this is all a temporary solution until I can afford to get a proper cambered rear axle.

While the rearend was out I decided to weigh it so I could have a better idea of unsprung weight. This is minus calipers and the partial weight of control arms, torque arm, and coilovers.
View attachment 102277View attachment 102278

Yeah, I'd fix that toe, thats way too much. Its easy to do.

 

[RinerAuto]

Yeah, I'd fix that toe, thats way too much. Its easy to do.

I will but later. I ran out of acetylene and I have an autocross this weekend, so car needs to be put back together. I have some rear suspension upgrades coming that I'll fix it then.

 

[RinerAuto]

Upon recent inspection of the front suspension I found that the upper control arm brackets on both sides had pulled away from the chassis.

There is a lot of force that goes through this bracket during braking. Plus I run a lot of anti-dive. I found this out first during FordFest in 2023 when I ripped the welds on that bracket. I've since redesigned and reinforced it. But this bracket being pulled away from the chassis means the alignment is not where I had originally set it. How long it's been like this, I'm not sure. This was after the 5th event for 2025. I've been off the pace at the last couple of events. The k-member bolt was still tight so it wasn't flopping around luckily. But it must need a little bit more torque

I also decided to remove some of the anti-dive % since I've increased spring rate this year. But that change raises my front roll center even higher, which it was already high at >4 inches. So I also moved the lower control arm mounting to get a more reasonable front roll center (~2 inches).

Got another autocross tomorrow, so we'll see how it feels.

 

[Dave_W]

Keep in mind that the "outside" upper wishbone is in tension during cornering. If you think of the tire-wheel-hub-spindle combination as a vertical seesaw, the lateral force at the contact patch puts the lower wishbone in compression and it acts like a fulcrum on that seesaw, causing the upper wishbone to be in tension.

 

[RinerAuto]

As I've mentioned I've started researching rear suspension. Currently I run MM TA, PHB, LCA, and coil overs. I'm not looking to completely redesign the rear suspension (yet). Rear suspension is somewhat simpler than the front. The main things to design is roll center, anti squat, roll steer, side view swing arm length, and instant center location. Some of these things I can't change due to the MM design. But with a simple LCA pickup point change I think I can dramatically change the characteristics of the rear end.



Since I run the MM PHB, I can't run the off the shelf axle brackets that are commonly used by drag racers. I designed up a simple bracket that fits inside of the stock LCA axle mount. The bracket will be welded in. It has 3 holes, with one be stock location, one ~1" lower, and 2" lower.

By lowering the LCA axle pickup point it raises my anti-squat and changes the roll steer from understeer to oversteer. Usually, you would want slight roll understeer as it's safer and more predictable. But for autocross I am thinking the roll oversteer will help the car rotate and be able to drive off the rear tire. Autocross is lower speed and has a lot of quick direction changes.



Then since the MM LCA will no longer fit I got the parts to make simple tube with rod end LCA. Turned to Speedway Motors to get swedged tubes and Barnes 4WD to get rod ends with correct misalignment spaces. This also meant I could no longer use the stock sway bar. But that's ok I don't think I need it.

Video:

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Super impressive and after going through the detailed pictures, written data and video I simply decided ......................I am going to let my alignment guy take care of my car, ha! Wow, now if I was near you I would definitely bring my little track beast over for you to work on.

 

[Jungle_Jim]

As I've mentioned I've started researching rear suspension. Currently I run MM TA, PHB, LCA, and coil overs. I'm not looking to completely redesign the rear suspension (yet). Rear suspension is somewhat simpler than the front. The main things to design is roll center, anti squat, roll steer, side view swing arm length, and instant center location. Some of these things I can't change due to the MM design. But with a simple LCA pickup point change I think I can dramatically change the characteristics of the rear end.

View attachment 103448

Since I run the MM PHB, I can't run the off the shelf axle brackets that are commonly used by drag racers. I designed up a simple bracket that fits inside of the stock LCA axle mount. The bracket will be welded in. It has 3 holes, with one be stock location, one ~1" lower, and 2" lower.

By lowering the LCA axle pickup point it raises my anti-squat and changes the roll steer from understeer to oversteer. Usually, you would want slight roll understeer as it's safer and more predictable. But for autocross I am thinking the roll oversteer will help the car rotate and be able to drive off the rear tire. Autocross is lower speed and has a lot of quick direction changes.

View attachment 103449

Then since the MM LCA will no longer fit I got the parts to make simple tube with rod end LCA. Turned to Speedway Motors to get swedged tubes and Barnes 4WD to get rod ends with correct misalignment spaces. This also meant I could no longer use the stock sway bar. But that's ok I don't think I need it.

Video:

Have you been liking suspension analyzer? I did a trial of "engine analyzer" when building my new motor and it was a nice bit of software; real intuitive and some great features in it.

I haven't pulled the trigger on doing a trial of suspension analyzer just because I've been busy with /vague motion/ but if its anything like EA I'm guessing its a pretty nice kit.

 

[Dave_W]

Another great video. Good info on analysis & design, and glad it's working well in real life. Having done community TV production in my younger days, I loved the gag you did with pushing the horizontal wipe.

 

[RinerAuto]

Super impressive and after going through the detailed pictures, written data and video I simply decided ......................I am going to let my alignment guy take care of my car, ha! Wow, now if I was near you I would definitely bring my little track beast over for you to work on.

Ha thanks, if you have a good alignment guy definitely keep him. I've heard it's hard to find ones that will do race alignments. I've actually never taken a car to an alignment shop. My dad used to do it and now I do it at home. Which is good due to how many times I'm messing with the suspension.

 

[RinerAuto]

Have you been liking suspension analyzer? I did a trial of "engine analyzer" when building my new motor and it was a nice bit of software; real intuitive and some great features in it.

I haven't pulled the trigger on doing a trial of suspension analyzer just because I've been busy with /vague motion/ but if its anything like EA I'm guessing its a pretty nice kit.

I really like it, although still learning all it's features. I think it (or similar software) is a requirement if designing suspension components. To maximize your trial period get the measurements beforehand. It will give you more time to play with the software.

 

[RinerAuto]

Another great video. Good info on analysis & design, and glad it's working well in real life. Having done community TV production in my younger days, I loved the gag you did with pushing the horizontal wipe.

HAHA! Thanks, I thought that gag would be funny. This video I also mostly wrote a script for and had a teleprompter on my computer. I wanted to make sure I convened the information correctly and didn't ramble on. However, I wasn't looking at the camera for a lot of the video. But I still like how it turned out.

 

[Jungle_Jim]

I really like it, although still learning all it's features. I think it (or similar software) is a requirement if designing suspension components. To maximize your trial period get the measurements beforehand. It will give you more time to play with the software.

Good to hear, and totally agree. Already have done some studies in SW but a lot of it comes with some guess and check, constant fiddling, re-constraining, etc. From what I've seen with SA it'll do a pretty decent job of hitting targets. As you know its a 7-headed hydra so having that extra tool will be nice.

Just haven't had time between stuff at home and then also trying to finalize rev2 of the digital dash to really maximize on the trial. Plus I just don't have the time right now to follow up on the spindle design so there's no real rush.