Suspension Banging

[Paul McWhiskey]

No, the coils are binding on both sides.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Has anyone had or know of anyone having problems with Vorshlag plates and BMR Handling springs?

 

[GAR944]

Curious where this is going.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

BMR now wants me to remove the Vorshlag plates and put the stock isolators back on. That is a helluva lot of work to go where I don’t want to be. They claim they have never had this issue before. I am asking to see if anyone has.

 

[biggsy]

I have seen a thread or post a couple years ago pertaining to Vorshlag plates and BMR springs. I can’t remember if it was on FB or M6G. It may have been a conversation between Kelly(former BMR employee and is now Kelltrac owner/founder) and Terry.

Things is several people have used that spring and plate combo without issue that I know of.

It’s a stretch but ask Kelly Aiken if he is aware of any issues of the spring/plate combo while he was at BMR.

 

[byronj]

That does seem a little excessive. Have to talked to Vorshlag? I had a banging issue on my Boss 302 and it was my error. If your car is on jack stands Id take a jack and raise the front wheels (be careful not to lift the car off the stands) and watch whats its doing. Shamless and useless plug to me. Think about buying a quickjack (worth the money)

 

[GAR944]

BMR now wants me to remove the Vorshlag plates and put the stock isolators back on. That is a helluva lot of work to go where I don’t want to be. They claim they have never had this issue before. I am asking to see if anyone has.

This is where I thought this was going.
The only difference I can see is if the factory rubber supports more of the first coil in a taper arrangement thereby stopping the first coil from collapsing and becoming flat and closing the gap to the next coil. If this is the case then the Vorshlag stock spring style camber plates would have this issue with all the factory style/rate springs.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Looked at the factory upper isolator that came with the new struts. Is the factory isolator with the bearing supposed to be used with Vorshlag plates?

If so, I have assembled the struts incorrectly and will have to beg forgiveness for this thread.

 

[BP2Vet]

Looked at the factory upper isolator that came with the new struts. Is the factory isolator with the bearing supposed to be used with Vorshlag plates?

If so, I have assembled the struts incorrectly and will have to beg forgiveness for this thread.

I watched the video on their website and I dont think so.

 

[GAR944]

Looked at the factory upper isolator that came with the new struts. Is the factory isolator with the bearing supposed to be used with Vorshlag plates?

If so, I have assembled the struts incorrectly and will have to beg forgiveness for this thread.

Vorshlag list 2 versions of their camber/castor plate. One is for OEM style springs and the other is for "coil over style springs" using industry standard spring diameters.
Your pictures show the larger diameter spring perch which is the stock style spring. It is sized for the stock spring to be centered by that plate. My comment before was every brand stock spring would then have the same issue with this plate style. From your pictures the spring is coil binding on the first coil, not rattling or coming loose and clunking.
Just make sure the top nut is actually tight as that will cause clunking no matter what setup is being used.



The coilover version is approx 2' diameter.


The most important part i found is this

Camber Plate Install: Mustang S550 - vorshlag

This is the bottom of the strut mount, showing the spring perch mounting face and bearing. NONE of this gets re-used.

vorshlag.smugmug.com

BMR on the other hand does re use the factory top.

Does your coilover kit use the OEM upper spring perches?? - Vorshlag Motorsports Forum

SPRING SPOTTERS GUIDE We get requests from customers and dealers every single day for camber plates that we know they specified incorrectly, so we have to reach out to verify the options they chose, or worse - we send them what they asked for then have do a supplemental invoice to be able to...

www.vorshlag.com

The only contradiction i find on the Vorshlag site is the picture in the coilover version where they show a tapered style OEM top mount

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

That is what I got from that video as well. BUT, I needed to ask the question because while looking at the parts I had that moment of doubt.

BMR asking me to install the stock isolators seems to me to be like telling my taylor that my pants are too long and the taylor telling me to wear boots with higher heels.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Vorshlag list 2 versions of their camber/castor plate. One is for OEM style springs and the other is for "coil over style springs" using industry standard spring diameters.
Your pictures show the larger diameter spring perch which is the stock style spring. It is sized for the stock spring to be centered by that plate. My comment before was every brand stock spring would then have the same issue with this plate style. From your pictures the spring is coil binding on the first coil, not rattling or coming loose and clunking.
Just make sure the top nut is actually tight as that will cause clunking no matter what setup is being used.
View attachment 110820

View attachment 110822
The coilover version is approx 2' diameter.
View attachment 110819

The most important part i found is this

Camber Plate Install: Mustang S550 - vorshlag

This is the bottom of the strut mount, showing the spring perch mounting face and bearing. NONE of this gets re-used.

vorshlag.smugmug.com

View attachment 110824

BMR on the other hand does re use the factory top.
View attachment 110825

Does your coilover kit use the OEM upper spring perches?? - Vorshlag Motorsports Forum

SPRING SPOTTERS GUIDE We get requests from customers and dealers every single day for camber plates that we know they specified incorrectly, so we have to reach out to verify the options they chose, or worse - we send them what they asked for then have do a supplemental invoice to be able to...

www.vorshlag.com

The only contradiction i find on the Vorshlag site is the picture in the coilover version where they show a tapered style OEM top mount
View attachment 110826

I have the red top mount. I was very clear when I ordered the plates that I was going to use BMR SP084 springs. The pigtail at the top of the spring fits the mount correctly. I have no looseness when the strut was assembled. The nut is torqued properly using the Vorshlag method. I have talked to them and checked that I have no looseness in the nuts or the spherical bearings.

 

[GAR944]

to save you pulling it apart you could cable tie some rubber over the coil that shows sign of contact and see if that shuts up the noise. At least then its confirmed thats the noise you were hearing.

 

[GAR944]

As @biggsy mentioned earlier, there are a few threads on M6G about clunks after installing Vorshlag plates.
The pertinent point usually has been the top nut.
In the interest of eliminating every scenario, did you do it up by hand or rattle gun?
Every time mine clunks in the front end i know its my top nuts backing off. And i have 2' id springs so i know i don't have your spring issue.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

I used an impact gun to tighten strut nuts as per Vorshlag’s instructions. I guess that I could try putting some rubber on the first coil at the contact point. Seems like a band aid for the problem, but would eliminate the plates as you say. I went over that with Vorshlag and found no looseness anywhere.

 

[GAR944]

Oh it's definitely not a fix. But sometimes you just have to say F it. If it shuts it up till you can find a permanent solution then its still a win. It sucks when you are the poor bunny that seems to find the anomaly. Everyone says its the other ones problem and you just have to find the best solution that works.
I've dug myself out of a few, why did i start this moments.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

After thinking about this over the weekend I believe that I am inclined to just contact BMR and ask them to refund my money for the front springs and I will send them back to them. There are plenty of other choices out there, and perhaps better ones, for what I want to accomplish. The concept of taking it apart to install what I don’t want does not have any appeal to me. Then to have to take it apart again to reinstall the CC plates with something that will work is ridiculous. A sad place to end up after all of the BMR equipment that I have bought that has worked as I expected.

 

[bnight]

You are sure your banging is from Coil Bind ? Because I have coil bind on my rear Ohlins springs since initial install. But there is no banging.

 

[GAR944]

You are sure your banging is from Coil Bind ? Because I have coil bind on my rear Ohlins springs since initial install. But there is no banging.

Curious what you mean by coil bind on your springs. They are a constant diameter springs so i'm assuming you are talking about the wedge area of the start coil to the first full coil where the coil spacing is reduced. Highlighted in the picture of your springs below. In which case it would be gradual contact along the top & bottom edge of the spring. Nothing dynamic.
True coil bind is the spring bottoming out, ie being fully compressed with all coils touching. Welcome to infinite spring rate and a trip into the scenery.
What was being referred to in Paul's case was just the same lead in coil to first full coil contact. The major difference being those 2 coils are of a different diameter allowing the 2nd coil to hit the edge of the first and continue/pop past the top of the first. I'm sure it also pops the spring sideways into the upper spring platform centre.
Given the wear marks on the coils there is half a chance the noise is the 2nd coil hitting the camber plate under major compression.

Now, the only time that I get banging is when I am on rough roads and pushing hard or braking hard, banging is on compression.

 

[bnight]

Curious what you mean by coil bind on your springs. They are a constant diameter springs so i'm assuming you are talking about the wedge area of the start coil to the first full coil where the coil spacing is reduced. Highlighted in the picture of your springs below. In which case it would be gradual contact along the top & bottom edge of the spring. Nothing dynamic.
True coil bind is the spring bottoming out, ie being fully compressed with all coils touching. Welcome to infinite spring rate and a trip into the scenery.
What was being referred to in Paul's case was just the same lead in coil to first full coil contact. The major difference being those 2 coils are of a different diameter allowing the 2nd coil to hit the edge of the first and continue/pop past the top of the first. I'm sure it also pops the spring sideways into the upper spring platform centre.
Given the wear marks on the coils there is half a chance the noise is the 2nd coil hitting the camber plate under major compression.




View attachment 110866

Because the way this springs are installed namely Ford Changing the design of the RLCA hole from round to triangular we needed to cut the RLCA to make the spring seat fit sadly it's not great so now there is coil bind notice both photos:




Especially on this one you can see how the coil bind is wiping the coating out of the spring at the bottom of the picture.


This actually manifests as clicking noise of a spring when in slow speed over multiple bumps. It's only audible from outside the car or when windows are down. Overall I blame Ford and the constant changes of the parts design.

Hope this clarifies it.

In Paul case banging noises could be not properly torqued Camber Plate nuts this are mighty annoying to torque down properly and create all sorts of annoying noises especially when paired with Vorshlag metal bearings. Fun Story the spring insulation is also a bushing for when the coils rotate and they make their own sort of noises noticeable in my case an annoying popping noise when rotating in parking speeds turning.