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sway bar thoughts

I am looking at going from the staggered factory tires to 18" square setup using 315/30 hoosiers on 11x18 rims all around. I currently have P springs installed along MM C/C plates, adj. UCA, LCA's and panhard bar. From what I understand, I will need to change up the factory swaybars. The question I have is should I change the front, the rear or both? Any brand better than the other? Or, being that I am using P-springs and factory shocks/struts, are the hoosiers going to be to much for that spring/shock setup?
 
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06mach1 said:
I am looking at going from the staggered factory tires to 18" square setup using 315/30 hoosiers on 11x18 rims all around. I currently have P springs installed along MM C/C plates, adj. UCA, LCA's and panhard bar. From what I understand, I will need to change up the factory swaybars. The question I have is should I change the front, the rear or both? Any brand better than the other? Or, being that I am using P-springs and factory shocks/struts, are the hoosiers going to be to much for that spring/shock setup?

I'm pretty sure you'll be in bump stop city with hoosiers and p springs!
Doing sway bars would be the cheaper way to increase the roll resistance to deal with the huge increase in lateral grip.

I would becareful with the rear though. The bigger the bar, the more rotation you will get in off-throttle and reduced throttle situations. It will also limit how early you can get on the power during the exit phase of the corner. Try a bigger front bar and see how it goes. That'll help with corner entry anyway. The rear is not going to want to roll much due to the inherint geometry of the car when lowered w/o roll center correction. So you might actually be ok in the back (bump travel pending)....
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
boro92 said:
I'm pretty sure you'll be in bump stop city with hoosiers and p springs!
Doing sway bars would be the cheaper way to increase the roll resistance to deal with the huge increase in lateral grip.

I would becareful with the rear though. The bigger the bar, the more rotation you will get in off-throttle and reduced throttle situations. It will also limit how early you can get on the power during the exit phase of the corner. Try a bigger front bar and see how it goes. That'll help with corner entry anyway. The rear is not going to want to roll much due to the inherint geometry of the car when lowered w/o roll center correction. So you might actually be ok in the back (bump travel pending)....


Agree, conventional wisdom on these cars going square add roll bar to the front or take away from the back. If your budget allows a set of adjustable sways would be good. Whiteline or Eibach are good. Once you have adjustment on both bars you can dial the car in over time and make changes as needed. That's going to be a lot of tire. I would be looking at my dampers and springs, might be time to get serious and move to the next level with the suspension. Where are you sourcing the wheels? Vorshlag has the 18x11s and they would be where I would seek what the car needs with this set up. Good luck with your car and have fun with it!
.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Domestic Product said:
Agree, conventional wisdom on these cars going square add roll bar to the front or take away from the back. If your budget allows a set of adjustable sways would be good. Whiteline or Eibach are good. Once you have adjustment on both bars you can dial the car in over time and make changes as needed. That's going to be a lot of tire. I would be looking at my dampers and springs, might be time to get serious and move to the next level with the suspension. Where are you sourcing the wheels? Vorshlag has the 18x11s and they would be where I would seek what the car needs with this set up. Good luck with your car and have fun with it!
^exactly.
I've been trying to think about what I would change with that level of grip...and I think the answer is almost everything! "Next level with the suspension" pretty much sums it up. And looking at the red Vorshlag car is a great place to start.
 
Grant 302 said:
^exactly.
I've been trying to think about what I would change with that level of grip...and I think the answer is almost everything! "Next level with the suspension" pretty much sums it up. And looking at the red Vorshlag car is a great place to start.

Yes, I have been looking at Vorshlag's setup. I am worried that the grip from 315 Hoosiers might just be too much for my stock shocks/struts, even with adding a bigger bar up front.
 
At a certain point doesn't adding a front bar counteract the point of having wider, stickier tires in the front?
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
06mach1 said:
Yes, I have been looking at Vorshlag's setup. I am worried that the grip from 315 Hoosiers might just be too much for my stock shocks/struts, even with adding a bigger bar up front.

Probably will be too much. Trying the bigger bar up front first might be more cost effective and go from there, but my inclination would be to try struts first, then springs, then sway bars. Pretty sure the dampers aren't up to the task. I just 'upgraded' my GT with P springs from base Boss dampers to LS struts, and I think I could use a couple of clicks stiffer. That's only on 275 Hankook R-S3s.
 
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Grant 302 said:
Probably will be too much. Trying the bigger bar up front first might be more cost effective and go from there, but my inclination would be to try struts first, then springs, then sway bars. Pretty sure the dampers aren't up to the task. I just 'upgraded' my GT with P springs from base Boss dampers to LS struts, and I think I could use a couple of clicks stiffer. That's only on 275 Hankook R-S3s.

I'm with you 100% on the strut part.
I'm finding stock struts inadequate for some circuits even on stock tires and brakes! Certainly not enough rebound in the back and shocks will begin to fade after only 4 or so consecutive hard laps. I would totally toy with the idea of swapping out the struts...but the thought then snowballs to coilovers, and then spherical ends on the arms, and poly bushings on the front lca, rear roll center adjustments, front roll center, bump steer, front camber etc etc :)

Basically: Money bags! Though if one has the dough to play with 315 width Hoosiers and replace them multiple times per season, then one already has quite the money bags :D So with that in mind, it's likely right that a front bar is not enough--especially if the driver is a seasoned one. I don't even think the stock Boss suspension will work well with tires much stickier than stock in the factory sizes. I will find out this season though and I'll be sure to report back (Dunlop Direzza Z2's)
 
I for one do not have lots of dough! I do not foresee being able even upgrade my shocks/struts for another couple years. I would like to run a stickier tire than the p-zero's though. I currently un 19x9 and 19x10 Forgestars with stock size p-zero's. Was planning on running new Hoosiers in 265 and 295/19's but they are kinda expensive for my budget. That's what started me thinking about running used 315 Hoosiers 18's. I could still go with the 18x11 rims and run 295/18 Rivals which are quite a bit cheaper than new R6's. Still would have to do something with swaybars though. If they made Rivals in the correct size staggered 19's, I would go that route. Decisions, decisions.....
 
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06mach1 said:
I for one do not have lots of dough! I do not foresee being able even upgrade my shocks/struts for another couple years. I would like to run a stickier tire than the p-zero's though. I currently un 19x9 and 19x10 Forgestars with stock size p-zero's. Was planning on running new Hoosiers in 265 and 295/19's but they are kinda expensive for my budget. That's what started me thinking about running used 315 Hoosiers 18's. I could still go with the 18x11 rims and run 295/18 Rivals which are quite a bit cheaper than new R6's. Still would have to do something with swaybars though. If they made Rivals in the correct size staggered 19's, I would go that route. Decisions, decisions.....

Why not Dunlop Z2 in 245/275 19s?
I know it's a down size, but the tread width is actually identical to the stock pirellis. So you aren't losing any contact patch. That is the route I went to keep with stock sizing.
Inexpensive to boot. It is $1k at tire rack for the rubber.
 

drano38

Wayne
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I'm running square with Strano's front/rear sway bar set.
But I've got skinny bicycle tires (285x18) compared to the big steam rollers you're considering!
Consider the Whiteline set for their unique rear mounting system, and Vorshlag sells them, so should get some good info from them.
 
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13Boss#3328 said:
Why not Potenza RE-11 on stock wheels 265/35-19 and 285/35-19?
That is what I am thinking


Ohhh this too. Another good choice which I too considered.
However, not having the ability to flip the tires turned me off. Depends how many track days one is doing a year I guess.
 
Given your budget concerns, I'd start with a square set up (in whatever size you want) and the sway bars to make that set up work. You'll waste a ton more money throwing away tires bacause you can't rotate them then you will on a set of swaybars.
 
I had real good luck with the stock P-zero's. I did have a little uneven wear on the fronts, but not bad. I run Watkins Glen and I believe I have ran the fastest I can go on street tires, so I planned on going to R-compounds. The only real R-compound in 19's are the Hoosiers at $400 each. I ended up buying 4 Nitto's in 305/35 18. Those are probably not as sticky as the 315 Hoosiers I was looking at. Still need to address sway bars. Looking at buying an adjustable front to start for now.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Good choice, I will assume NTO1s. Awesome tire and you will be amazed at the difference on track compared to the stock rubber. A whole different level. Now that you are running square you will be prone to over steer at the limit ( or before). Budget shot? remove rear sway. Have some extra cash , get a adjustable front first and adjustable rear sway at some point. You can then raise the overall level of sway resistance front and rear and dial in the car over time based on your driving.
Good luck and up date us when you get a couple track days with the new rubber
 
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I'd run the blue ford motorsports bar on the front set in the middle to start with and the 18mm bar in the rear and adjust from there.
 
blacksheep-1 said:
I'd run the blue ford motorsports bar on the front set in the middle to start with and the 18mm bar in the rear and adjust from there.

Any idea where I can the Ford Racing 18mm rear bar? And what part number is the front bar? Thanks
 
steveespo said:
Watson or Rehagen can get you the bar.
Steve

I didn't think to call them as Ford Racing has discontinued and no longer sells the 18mm rear sway bar. Not sure if it would come in a Ford Racing swaybar package though?
 

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