Thinking of a 2018+ mustang for mostly track duty, occasional weekend car, looking for info

[KazarS197]

I was in a similar position not long ago and ended up selecting the 2018 Ford Mustang Ecoboost. It's much better balanced than the GT and lighter weight. Particularly if you're coming from a german/mid-engined car, it will be more familiar. The only downside is obviously less power (which you mentioned you don't mind).

Yes you'll want to change rims, and they're called wheels. You'll need some upgraded tires as well.

You could go auto or manual, if you go auto you may need additional transmission cooling. If you go manual, I'd personally go for one that comes with downshift rev-matching, unless your heel-toe (not heal/toe, by the way) technique is perfect.

No, none of the seats that come any of the packages are worth it because they aren't SFI/FIA certified and they won't support a 6-point harness. You can't run "4 or 5 racing belts", almost any track or racing series will not allow a 4-point belt. I don't know what you mean about "putting a bar" in it, don't install a harness bar. You will want at least a rear 4-point cage, or a full cage if you are doing any wheel to wheel racing.

Just curious. Which mods that you're giving advice on have you done to your Mustang? Photos please. We like to see different configurations.

 

[bronco100]

Just curious. Which mods that you're giving advice on have you done to your Mustang? Photos please. We like to see different configurations.

What do you mean? I'm not giving advice on any mods, other than the wheels & tires I suppose. It's not always required to get different wheels, but usually necessary to fit the tire or brake that you want. Additionally, most factory wheels are too heavy for the track. If you want to see more photos check out my build thread!

 

[KazarS197]

What do you mean? I'm not giving advice on any mods, other than the wheels & tires I suppose. It's not always required to get different wheels, but usually necessary to fit the tire or brake that you want. Additionally, most factory wheels are too heavy for the track. If you want to see more photos check out my build thread!

We try to post here with advice and input from our Mustangs, personal experience with them and mods that we have performed or have been done for us. You mentioned details on trans cooling, harnesses, seats and a 4 point cage. I was curious about your personal experience with them an your Mustang. I didn't see it as constructive with you trying to correct a new member from his 1st post. We don't want to run anyone off. There are members that have been here since inception that may do that jokingly with other members that already have a working forum and or real life dialogue with each other. That is different. Here what I try to do since have only been on TMO for 3 years. I try to listen and learn for the gentleman here that literally have decades of experience and knowledge and try not to parrot information that I have no experience with because I feel it has no merit. Take this and do with as you want. Welcome to TMO. Stick around and learn from from these awesome fellas and maybe a small bit from me. Mark

 

[KazarS197]

@ACGTS40 my apologies about derailing your thread.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The gentleman with the question raced Spec Racer and karts so he is not a neophyte but just wondering a bit about doing some things to a street car. We all joke about heel and toe being misspelled but keep in mind the culprit is usually little Miss Spellcheck. I do believe his questions are quite open to get a better feel for what folks here are doing, but remember many of us enjoy calling wheels rims and vise versa , just to rile our good buddy Blacksheep 1. To be fair , regardless that a wheel has a rim, both are correct in discussing what a tire goes on because " rims " has not only become a common place slang it is often even used in advertising businesses who deal in the products in parts of the US. Take time and google rims and wheels , but I digress.

4 point harnesses are legal and used heavily in autocrossing and some organizations still allow them for track experiences, but the majority require either the factory three points, a five point , or the preferred 6 point harness system;

Some of the cars have a factory rev match ( Mach 1 ) whereas a GT 350 does not, but there are after market systems that will allow one to modify your car to do this ( Blip Shift comes to mind)

Many folks will get a full race seat, but attaching a harness system with factory seats like the Recaros are quite common with various harness bars or something like a Watson four point roll bar. Not disagreeing that an FIA seat is better , but let's not say it is required in all situations ---- full race W2W ,sure, but HPDEs, not necessarily.

And everyone have a nice day!

 

[bronco100]

We try to post here with advice and input from our Mustangs, personal experience with them and mods that we have performed or have been done for us. You mentioned details on trans cooling, harnesses, seats and a 4 point cage. I was curious about your personal experience with them an your Mustang. I didn't see it as constructive with you trying to correct a new member from his 1st post. We don't want to run anyone off. There are members that have been here since inception that may do that jokingly with other members that already have a working forum and or real life dialogue with each other. That is different. Here what I try to do since have only been on TMO for 3 years. I try to listen and learn for the gentleman here that literally have decades of experience and knowledge and try not to parrot information that I have no experience with because I feel it has no merit. Take this and do with as you want. Welcome to TMO. Stick around and learn from from these awesome fellas and maybe a small bit from me. Mark

You are correct in your assumption that I don't have experience with those particular things on my Mustang, particularly since I just got it about a month ago. However, I've built my own race car from the ground up and I worked with a Pikes Peak Hill Climb team for the install of the cage, seats, and harnesses. It's not a Mustang, but those safety concepts apply to all track cars. The original poster said this would be a "mostly track duty" car that he would trailer to the track. That sounds to me like a car that should have some safety gear that will at least pass tech inspection for anything beyond the most grassroots autocross or HPDE. That's just my opinion though. If he wants to try and run a 4-point harness he's certainly welcome to see how far he gets with that.

 

[KazarS197]

The gentleman with the question raced Spec Racer and karts so he is not a neophyte but just wondering a bit about doing some things to a street car. We all joke about heel and toe being misspelled but keep in mind the culprit is usually little Miss Spellcheck. I do believe his questions are quite open to get a better feel for what folks here are doing, but remember many of us enjoy calling wheels rims and vise versa , just to rile our good buddy Blacksheep 1. To be fair , regardless that a wheel has a rim, both are correct in discussing what a tire goes on because " rims " has not only become a common place slang it is often even used in advertising businesses who deal in the products in parts of the US. Take time and google rims and wheels , but I digress.

4 point harnesses are legal and used heavily in autocrossing and some organizations still allow them for track experiences, but the majority require either the factory three points, a five point , or the preferred 6 point harness system;

Some of the cars have a factory rev match ( Mach 1 ) whereas a GT 350 does not, but there are after market systems that will allow one to modify your car to do this ( Blip Shift comes to mind)

Many folks will get a full race seat, but attaching a harness system with factory seats like the Recaros are quite common with various harness bars or something like a Watson four point roll bar. Not disagreeing that an FIA seat is better , but let's not say it is required in all situations ---- full race W2W ,sure, but HPDEs, not necessarily.

And everyone have a nice day!

I'm running the Schroth Quick Fit Pro ( 4 point harness) with factory seats. It is accepted at HPDEs and works well with a head and neck restraint. Personally I would only run with a head and neck restraint even though it does have a break away for torsal rotation and definitely holds you in place better, not great but good. I think it is the only 4 point at is street legal since it works in combination with the regular belt connections allowing the air bags to be functional. If there are others I don't know about them. I do realize that they are not as good as 5 or 6 point systems but was not in my budget. At least they are a step up from a 3 point. Sometimes there are compromises with a duel duty car.

 

[bnight]

I'm running the Schroth Quick Fit Pro ( 4 point harness) with factory seats. It is accepted at HPDEs and works well with a head and neck restraint. Personally I would only run with a head and neck restraint even though it does have a break away for torsal rotation and definitely holds you in place better, not great but good. I think it is the only 4 point at is street legal since it works in combination with the regular belt connections allowing the air bags to be functional. If there are others I don't know about them. I do realize that they are not as good as 5 or 6 point systems but was not in my budget. At least they are a step up from a 3 point. Sometimes there are compromises with a duel duty car.

the OP is not looking for dual duty car as far as I understand the question. Roll Cage and proper harnesses is better than quick fit pro. My understanding is ether stay with 3 points and let factory systems work as expected (as i did since no w2w) or do it as it should be done since our cars are not exactly slow and some tracks are dangerous. After all we only have 1 life.

 

[bnight]

Replace the standard style bleeders with a “sleeved” bleeder. Not sure this is the right term. My Brembos have an insert/metal piece which sears into the caliper, Once. Once in place you manipulate the bleeder inside the steel sleeve. The threads on the caliper are saved. This is an example of the type I use. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/p...MIhcDy3J6FgQMVFzWtBh3uMA47EAQYBSABEgJQePD_BwE

I did bought such bleeders but still needed to replace callipers so with the new callipers I'm back to OEM bleeders until the first brake fluid change when will install the sleeved bleeders. Though the bleeders were as expensive as the callipers so that says a lot.

 

[KazarS197]

the OP is not looking for dual duty car as far as I understand the question. Roll Cage and proper harnesses is better than quick fit pro. My understanding is ether stay with 3 points and let factory systems work as expected (as i did since no w2w) or do it as it should be done since our cars are not exactly slow and some tracks are dangerous. After all we only have 1 life.

The quick fit pro debate could turn into something like a which oil is better. There's the manufacturer info and customer info and from what I can see no real life accidents documented to prove either way. I did mention that a proper harness is better and would only run the quick fit with a hans. Just giving other potential options for the OP until he gets his bar or rollcage installed with seat/s.

 

[ACGTS40]

the OP is not looking for dual duty car as far as I understand the question. Roll Cage and proper harnesses is better than quick fit pro. My understanding is ether stay with 3 points and let factory systems work as expected (as i did since no w2w) or do it as it should be done since our cars are not exactly slow and some tracks are dangerous. After all we only have 1 life.

I’m looking to install the Watson bar in the back seats so I can do a proper restraint system.

 

[bnight]

The quick fit pro debate could turn into something like a which oil is better. There's the manufacturer info and customer info and from what I can see no real life accidents documented to prove either way. I did mention that a proper harness is better and would only run the quick fit with a hans. Just giving other potential options for the OP until he gets his bar or rollcage installed with seat/s.

Don't get me wrong for a Clubsport car (retaining oem seats) Quick Fit Pro is the only viable option. As OP said he is looking for proper roll bar / harnesses. Also all Ford Performance Track cars run rollbar + better harnesses for a reason. If I wanted to get rid of rear seats that's the direction I would go like what Ford Performance did.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I did bought such bleeders but still needed to replace callipers so with the new callipers I'm back to OEM bleeders until the first brake fluid change when will install the sleeved bleeders. Though the bleeders were as expensive as the callipers so that says a lot.

Odd, I have run the PP brakes on the Boss for about four years and have never had any problems. Apart from changing the dust boots periodically etc. I think you mentioned fade in a previous post? That's not really a caliper issue, more to do with your pad and brake liquid choice, assuming that you have some form of brake ducts installed.

 

[bnight]

Odd, I have run the PP brakes on the Boss for about four years and have never had any problems. Apart from changing the dust boots periodically etc. I think you mentioned fade in a previous post? That's not really a caliper issue, more to do with your pad and brake liquid choice, assuming that you have some form of brake ducts installed.

You are a lucky one but I strongly suggest you check your bleeder valves or check Flyhalf build thread as he can attest how dangerous this bleed valves are. I don't have brake ducts. And I do know my brake fade is pads are overheating as I'm getting hard pedal. I'm guessing at some point the factory brembo's are not up to the task. They are a cheap ass callipers made for street and for the street they are indeed amazing.

 

[Mad Hatter]

What brake pads/liquid are you using?? I run 20 to 30 min sprints with a pack of Cayman Gt4's. At the end of the session I can pass them on braking because they are loosing their brakes. For me thats Braking from 145 mph on a long straight down to 50mph corner for 10 to 15 laps. My buddies supercharged E92 M3 has AP brakes and I can still out brake him... Nothing like good pads! (am using Gloc R18 pads now, but still love Pagid RST3's).

 

[bnight]

What brake pads/liquid are you using?? I run 20 to 30 min sprints with a pack of Cayman Gt4's. At the end of the session I can pass them on braking because they are loosing their brakes. For me thats Braking from 145 mph on a long straight down to 50mph corner for 10 to 15 laps. My buddies supercharged E92 M3 has AP brakes and I can still out brake him... Nothing like good pads! (am using Gloc R18 pads now, but still love Pagid RST3's).

I'm running GLoc R12 (front) / R8(rears) will switch rears to R10 probably. My brake fluid is Motul RBF660, I have goodridge brake lines and steeda clutch line, I run OEM ford blank rotors with 6 Piston Brembo's. Car is on 305/30/19 Nankang AR-1's. And is doing 1.45-1.60G of braking according to my Racebox Pro. However my track is very slow with 4 hard brakes and the longest straight is just 1/4 mile. So there is not enough time to cool down the brakes. I'm facing brake pad fade (very hard pedal) at the end of the 3rd braking zone 80 mph to 37 mph. Somewhere in my 3rd or 4th flying lap. I really think this is track specific issue more than actual braking issue.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Cool. My brake fade is usually a longer squishy pedal If I go too hog wild. With the pedal going hard, could this be the ice mode since your running a harder less grippy tire?? I never have had it on my car but lots of mustangs I know have experienced it. Are you running with all the traction control off??

its described here...

So called "Ice Mode" anyone experience it?

From what I understand from my GM buddies, "Ice Mode" is related to the ABS system believing that the car is sliding on ice so it reduces brake pressure and efficiency accordingly. It presents with a rock hard pedal with minimal braking ability. I don't recall hearing much about this on the...

trackmustangsonline.com

I really did not like the feel or track life of the Gloc R12. If you want a dual use pad, I would recommend the Pagid RSL29, lasts longer then the discs and works hot or cold.... just expensive. But its a very very long lasting pad.

 

[Mad Hatter]

@bnight, Maybe that should have been posted on your build thread sorry. Digressing from the OP's thread.

 

[stevbd]

@ACGTS40 You've gotten a lot of good input on this thread but can you say a little more about how you intend to use this car? TMO is awesome and has tons of great knowledge and help - but you do have to remember that members have all levels of experience and are doing everything from W2W racing to occasional HPDE days. It looks like you are experienced in both but it's a little unclear how you want to use this particular car.

If you're going for a full race or full send type of track build, then as others have said I would think the usual course is to start with a base model car since you'll be replacing everything anyhow. If you are going for more of a 'tweener car that you can drive to the track and take your wife out to dinner afterwards, the Mach 1 looks pretty compelling imo if it's in your budget. But a factory performance package like that would be a total waste if you're just going to rip it all out and build a race car.

I'm also unclear if you're installing a roll cage because you want to go racing or because you want to run 5 or 6 point harnesses at HPDE style events. Like @KazarS197 I run the Scroth quick fit with neck restraint on track and I am comfortable with that but I respect that it's a personal decision. I often run with PCA and BMWCCA and they have no problem with the setup during tech inspections. As mentioned, I personally wouldn't run this without a neck restraint though.

I personally would go with a stick axle S197 but I'm biased. Objectively, they are lighter, cheaper, easy to set up, and basically as quick as a GT S550 on track. Maybe a tick slower on paper but within driver error imo in the real world, espeically with basic mods.

Good luck and welcome.

 

[VUDU V8 Steve]

Get a used GT350, add brake caliper studs, lugnuts, camber plates, fluids, brake pads, and sticky tires and you're ready.
Or go crazy reading, buying parts, and messing around with your car. After a certain number of track days, you'll stretch the suspension and know you need a few more upgrades. Only idiots drive a caged car on the street (without a helmet).
Row the gears, it's fun and you're driving for pleasure, it sounds like. The GT350 is so good right out of the box, it's hard to go wrong. Have fun.