Tire conundrum

[jpt3]

That's not roll...this is roll... (I guess) on a front engine, nose heavy car, you basically give up the center of the corner a little so you can get on the gas earlier, so to give the car forward bite you run a lot of roll. To do that you have to get those rear tires planted. You also want to keep the nose supported , basically , you have to play to the car's strengths, which isn't the center of the corner. It's getting in, and getting out. The last pic (with the 275 x18 continentals, looks a lot like your car, and you can plainly see the "piano wire" rear bar.

Ok you definitely have me beat haha. Tell me more about the piano wire rear bar. I assume that means you don't like a stiff rear bar?

 

[blacksheep-1]

It's like anything else, it's the combination of things, AJ and Kurt don't run much rear bar or none at all. The rear ends flop around all over the place, even on braking.
Here's the Roush cars, It's just what these cars like

 

[jpt3]

So is the general consensus to put a nice adjustable front sway bar and leave the rear alone?


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[blacksheep-1]

run the 18mm rear bar and see how it goes, would be my recommendation, along with the blue bar in front. keep in mind that you'll need a spring change to make all that happen, see the Roush car under braking? you have to hold that front end up.

 

[jpt3]

run the 18mm rear bar and see how it goes, would be my recommendation, along with the blue bar in front. keep in mind that you'll need a spring change to make all that happen, see the Roush car under braking? you have to hold that front end up.

I do see that. Springs are the way to change. Is there a set of springs you recommend?

 

[Fabman]

I do see that. Springs are the way to change. Is there a set of springs you recommend?

500/350 springs-35 mm front bar 18mm rear bar and you will think you got a new car.

 

[jpt3]

500/350 springs-35 mm front bar 18mm rear bar and you will think you got a new car.

Any particular brand of spring you guys like for this combination? Am 18mm bar was stock on the convertibles I believe. Lastly can you comment on how these springs are on the road? I imagine pretty stiff.

Thanks

Jake

 

[Fabman]

Any particular brand of spring you guys like for this combination? Am 18mm bar was stock on the convertibles I believe. Lastly can you comment on how these springs are on the road? I imagine pretty stiff.

Thanks

Jake

I don't have a problem with them, but they are a little stiff.
I have adjustable shocks so I can just soften them up.
Eibach is the only brand I've found with the spring variety in such short lengths.
These are for coilovers mind you, not stock struts. There are no stock size springs that are stiff enough to do the job IMHO.
I went through all this a year ago. I finally gave up and bought a set of JRI single adjustable s from Cortex.
Knowing what I know now I would have just started with these because in the end that's what was needed anyway and I could have saved myself a ton of time and trouble. There are other brands out there too that are good, this is just a popular option and the rout I took. However, get your checkbook out.


http://cortexracing.com/product/xtreme-grip-coil-over-system-cortex-jri-double-front-single-rear-adjustable-2005-2014-mustang/


There are less expensive options as well, but if you get serious into tracking you will just end up here anyway.
At least that's how it worked out for me.


Ground control has a much cheaper option and Vorshlag has something in between cost wise, but also plenty capable.
Just depends on what your goals are vs. budget.


And that's my 2 cents.

 

[Fabman]

Here is a cheaper option but you won't have quite the adjust-ability in the rear shocks as you must compress them to change the rate.

http://cortexracing.com/product/xtreme-grip-coil-over-system-2005-2014-s197-mustang-street/

 

[Fabman]

I think I gave you links for 2005-2010 because thats what i have, but you can look up the correct year.

www.cortexracing.com
http://www.vorshlag.com/shocks.php
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/category.php/CA=111


There are more manufacturers out there....but this is a good place to start.
Decide what you want from your car and are willing to spend to get there and start making phone calls.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Check out the Ford Racing adjustable shocks, like I posted, they're a pretty good deal, honestly most of the non Penske shocks are mostly compatible IMO, like I said before, 500/350 Ford "blue" bar on the front , start in the middle hole, 18mm bar in the rear, and a decent set of shocks will do wonders.
Check in Frod Performance/Racing..whatever it is today or with the advertisers on this sight.

 

[jpt3]

I don't have a problem with them, but they are a little stiff.
I have adjustable shocks so I can just soften them up.
Eibach is the only brand I've found with the spring variety in such short lengths.
These are for coilovers mind you, not stock struts. There are no stock size springs that are stiff enough to do the job IMHO.
I went through all this a year ago. I finally gave up and bought a set of JRI single adjustable s from Cortex.
Knowing what I know now I would have just started with these because in the end that's what was needed anyway and I could have saved myself a ton of time and trouble. There are other brands out there too that are good, this is just a popular option and the rout I took. However, get your checkbook out.


http://cortexracing.com/product/xtreme-grip-coil-over-system-cortex-jri-double-front-single-rear-adjustable-2005-2014-mustang/


There are less expensive options as well, but if you get serious into tracking you will just end up here anyway.
At least that's how it worked out for me.


Ground control has a much cheaper option and Vorshlag has something in between cost wise, but also plenty capable.
Just depends on what your goals are vs. budget.


And that's my 2 cents.

Great info. Thanks for your opinion. So to be clear you first went with eibach springs but then went to the cortex? For me the car is not dedicated track at this point but I want it to perform the best haha. Typical wanting it all right.

 

[jpt3]

Check out the Ford Racing adjustable shocks, like I posted, they're a pretty good deal, honestly most of the non Penske shocks are mostly compatible IMO, like I said before, 500/350 Ford "blue" bar on the front , start in the middle hole, 18mm bar in the rear, and a decent set of shocks will do wonders.
Check in Frod Performance/Racing..whatever it is today or with the advertisers on this sight.

Black sheep

I definitely wasn't ignoring your previous post and actually took the whiteline out of my shopping cart after your post. I'm going to do the Ford racing front and have been looking at the springs. The koni shocks for now are fine with me but I want to change the springs. I'm just having trouble finding springs with those spring rates and was hoping someone knows of some. It seems the H&R racing are the closest unless I'm missing some.

Jake

 

[Fabman]

Great info. Thanks for your opinion. So to be clear you first went with eibach springs but then went to the cortex? For me the car is not dedicated track at this point but I want it to perform the best haha. Typical wanting it all right.

Cortex is the coil over setup, they use Eibach springs. Eibach makes springs for a lot of things.

 

[Fabman]

Black sheep

I definitely wasn't ignoring your previous post and actually took the whiteline out of my shopping cart after your post. I'm going to do the Ford racing front and have been looking at the springs. The koni shocks for now are fine with me but I want to change the springs. I'm just having trouble finding springs with those spring rates and was hoping someone knows of some. It seems the H&R racing are the closest unless I'm missing some.

Jake

H&R are about the stiffest stock style spring, but they put the car too low.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I have mixed emotions about coil overs, probably because we're spoiled, but if you want to do coil overs then Penske is the only game in town IMO, until you mortgage the house to pay for them you can get good results with coil/shock setups for much less money than a coilover setup. The Ford Racing adjustables are around $850.

Also for the "rate wars" here's a few tables..





you're going to need this..
Roughly 1 KG/mm is equal to 55.997 LBS/in. Easy way to remember is 1 KG/mm = 56 LBS/in.
Here's a few quick charts:
700 lb/in = 12.5 kg/mm
650 lb/in = 11.6 kg/mm
600 lb/in = 10.7 kg/mm
550 lb/in = 9.8 kg/mm
500 lb/in = 8.9 kg/mm
450 lb/in = 8 kg/mm
400 lb/in = 7.1 kg/mm
350 lb/in = 6.2 kg/mm
300 lb/in = 5.3 kg/mm
250 lb/in = 4.5 kg/mm
kg/mm to lbs/in
-----------------------------
16 = 896
15 = 840
14 = 784
13 = 728
12 = 672
11 = 616
10 = 560
9.0 = 504
8.5 = 476
8.0 = 448
7.5 = 420
7.0 = 392
6.5 = 364
6.0 = 336
5.5 = 308
5.0 = 280
4.5 = 252
4.0 = 224
3.0 = 168
2.0 = 112


and a link

https://www.thespringstore.com/spring-calculator/spring-rate-calculator.html

 

[Mad Hatter]

I went from the stock Boss setup to P springs and did not notice that great of an improvement.... But then upgrading to the Cortex Budget Koni setup. Very significant upgrade as far as performance. What surprised me was that the that the ride improved over the stock adjustables and P springs.

 

[jpt3]

Blacksheep

Wow!!! That information is way over my head. It seems like I can measure the length and width of my springs then the spring rate and they will make it?

Thanks for all your input. A friend bought a car with Penske shocks and he's quite happy.


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[Grant 302]

I think this thread has quickly turned into a 'how to spend other people's money' thread.

This is my take:

Set the suspension up for the tires you want to run.

Base GT springs are barely enough to control the grip from crappy A/S Nero tires.

Brembo/Track pack rates control the P Zero square 255s maybe a bit more.

Boss rates and dampers can handle slightly bigger than stock size street tires.

Aftermarket P thru H&R race with aftermarket dampers can handle from sticky street to slicks.

Coilovers can be made to control whatever fits.

...

Anyway, I don't see the point in picking out bar sizes and other details until after you pick a direction on the suspension upgrades and the tires you want to run.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Very True!!. we all like to spend other peoples money!!