S550 Upside Down and on the Wrong Side Build Thread Profile - S550 Mustangs

[Mikael.RevRunners]

While the manifold project is stalled waiting for parts to arrive, i got back to the other project that had stalled cause i'm still waiting for a sensor 10 weeks later.
For those following along, had shocking temperatures for oil after doing a lot of work to prevent that. Decided that it didn't believe the Ford gauges so wanted real data.
Time to do some logging. Now what to use. Started looking at the internet and wasn't really happy with the cheap stuff as it was going to be more trouble that it was worth dealing with the data.
Then i remembered i had a Haltech dash sitting in its box because the Mustang got in the way by going down a rabbit hole of just a little bit more. Did some research and realised it could be used for more than the 4 analogue inputs they show by default.
So decision time, what to log.
Ended up with

• Engine oil leaving block temperature
• Actual real oil pressure at the same spot, still waiting for that bloody combined sensor.
• Return oil temperature from the front mount cooler. Is the work i did ducting it actually working after the crap temps i got last event.
• Gearbox temperature leaving going to the cooler.
• Differential temperature leaving going to cooler
• New radiator got modified for sensor so it has entering temp
• And leaving temperature
• Given all this data was stand alone, had an air temp sensor sitting available so that got added to give me a reference frame.

This car has spent more time in the air than i would prefer, i think i actually enjoy this, frustrated fabricator at heart.
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Thankfully most of the sensors are on one side and found a grommet through the firewall behind the wheel arch liner.
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Now just have to get some power to the display. Relatively easy since i ran a decent power feed to the boot, "trunk" for the confused people, so just run under the rear seat delete with a new fused supply.
View attachment 104153
Next dilemma is do i mount it so it visible when driving, would be nice as i can set alarms with visual warnings, or just bury it in the glove box and suck the data out afterwards.
Of course its getting a mount, i'm stupid and can spend a considerable amount of time coming up with something fancy.

Word to the people like me, double check what wires you need for the sensors BEFORE you close up the harness. My infamous combined Temp & Pressure sensor was out of sight so out of mind. Forgot the 5v supply and trimmed all the excess cores back inside the wheel arch. Couldn't bare the thought of cable tying a single cable to the outside of the loom so cut it open again and redid it to have an extra core. Stupid.

Just to be THAT guy and fill your fabricator mind with more ideas....you could mount that haltech screen between the two dashboard "bumps" almost like how the R34 GTR has one mounted on its dash.....

 

[GAR944]

I would try to keep it in view if possible. Good temps to have an eye on while on track. I don’t know how big your logger is but I plan on going with an AIM MXM and mounting it on the steering column. Then installing a button to allow scrolling between pages.

If not there then you could leverage something similar to the Course Motorsport Mustang mount location. Here is me using it with my phone then a tablet. I swapped out the ball it came with to a bigger RAM mount size B so I could then use the x grip series from RAM with the respective device. Worked perfectly.
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Yeah, i want it where i can see it. Should be able to colour code the temp displays as i probably wont be able to read the numbers. I hate needing glasses to read now. Thankfully dont need them to drive.
Best part is i can alarm under temp as well and know when everything is up to operating temp before thrashing it.
Just looked up the Course Motorsport mount, now i know where to look for some fixing points. Thanks for that

 

[biggsy]

Yeah, i want it where i can see it. Should be able to colour code the temp displays as i probably wont be able to read the numbers. I hate needing glasses to read now. Thankfully dont need them to drive.
Best part is i can alarm under temp as well and know when everything is up to operating temp before thrashing it.
Just looked up the Course Motorsport mount, now i know where to look for some fixing points. Thanks for that

Yea I would just look at existing phone mounts that may or may not be car specific like ProClipsUSA sand then see how you can adapt it to your device. Half the work would already be done for you

 

[bnight]

I honestly don't get the obsession with real Oil Temp gauges that this forum is famous for. BTW look at Vorshlag build for real gauges that he mounted on top of the dashboards. However your CHT is the limiting factor as getting the CHT over 104C (220F) is when the car start pulling timing at least on the factory Ford tunes. This is way way before your oil gets anywhere close to overheating. So if you can keep the car under 220F CHT you shouldn't worry about oil temps.

 

[biggsy]

Real gauges are fine but I believe @GAR944 also wants it to show up in the logs so will need to connect it to a DL anyways.

I think if you have the ability to know actual temps then it will be wise to use it regardless of when the engine pulls timing. Every other sensor is actual so why leave oil temp inferred? More info you have the better you can rule out issues. It’s also possible to over cool oil so CHT can be fine but oil not hot enough.

 

[bnight]

Real gauges are fine but I believe @GAR944 also wants it to show up in the logs so will need to connect it to a DL anyways.

I think if you have the ability to know actual temps then it will be wise to use it regardless of when the engine pulls timing. Every other sensor is actual so why leave oil temp inferred? More info you have the better you can rule out issues. It’s also possible to over cool oil so CHT can be fine but oil not hot enough.

Water temp is also inferred it's not only oil temp.

 

[GAR944]

Water temp is also inferred it's not only oil temp.

And there is the issue with the factory gauges. My last log showing i've cooked the oil which surprised the hell out of me given GT500 sump and oil pump, Remote oil cooler fully ducted ,now divorced from the water system, ie factory cooler.
A friend of mine who built blown V8 motors for Southern 80 Ski boat racers, 80km race hitting 200km/h on a winding river, said they only watched one gauge, Oil temp, if it started to climb it was an early warning sign they had hurt a motor.
I'm not a race team with a budget, i have however spent a lot of money on what i believe is modification to make this car survive 20 minute session for hopefully years to come. If the data says something is wrong then i want to address it before it becomes a catastrophic failure. If the factory data is lieing to me then i'm going in search of the real information.
So when i get told my oil has hit 129C (264F) and water temp 104C (219F) i start to ask questions.
I'm on my 3rd engine in my 944 club racer in 20 years as we found its weak points at sustained high rpm. We know the coyotes and i dont want to rush having to build one if it can be avoided.
Especially when the CobraJet manifold and cams go in raising the rev limit further. So i can understand the obsession with real oil temperatures.

 

[bnight]

And there is the issue with the factory gauges. My last log showing i've cooked the oil which surprised the hell out of me given GT500 sump and oil pump, Remote oil cooler fully ducted ,now divorced from the water system, ie factory cooler.
A friend of mine who built blown V8 motors for Southern 80 Ski boat racers, 80km race hitting 200km/h on a winding river, said they only watched one gauge, Oil temp, if it started to climb it was an early warning sign they had hurt a motor.
I'm not a race team with a budget, i have however spent a lot of money on what i believe is modification to make this car survive 20 minute session for hopefully years to come. If the data says something is wrong then i want to address it before it becomes a catastrophic failure. If the factory data is lieing to me then i'm going in search of the real information.
So when i get told my oil has hit 129C (264F) and water temp 104C (219F) i start to ask questions.
I'm on my 3rd engine in my 944 club racer in 20 years as we found its weak points at sustained high rpm. We know the coyotes and i dont want to rush having to build one if it can be avoided.
Especially when the CobraJet manifold and cams go in raising the rev limit further. So i can understand the obsession with real oil temperatures.

The regular oil in this cars can do 135C (275F) before it start to disintegrate switching to 5W50 will move that even higher. 104C water temps is something I see on a regular basis. The only reasonable metric that is still on your dashboard and it's not inferred is the CHT temp that's the metric from which the other 2 are inferred. P.S. even under 129C you are cooking the oil and the best way to check that is by looking into color when checking it and monitoring oil level.

Something I discovered lately is that you do need an oil catch can on the left side of the car actually if you do the GT500 valve covers you probably don't but still better safe than sorry.

I'm sure others that run Dark Horses R here can tell you that keeping a 500 hp Coyote cool for a 45 minutes race is not an easy task though racing require you to fallow other cars close while HPDE don't.

And then you can always have some form of mechanical sympathy to the car for example I let off when I see 115C (239F) CHT and wait for temps to come down.

With all the latest mods (Power Pack 3, GT500 Valve covers, Catback) this temp drop happens in 1 max 2 cooldown laps and I'm ready to push again from 97C CHT.

At 35C (95F) air temp my water temp was up to 105C and never over that. My Oil temps never went into Red. And car was performing reasonable for the temps (0.5 seconds of PB times).

Considering the fact that I still use 5W20 oil (7th track season with the car), standard cooling system, and closed hood. I think that's a great result.

 

[GAR944]

Another Friday and FINALLY after waiting 10 weeks, the combined oil pressure and temp sensor turns up.
Can finally finish getting all this together.

 

[GAR944]

On a bit of a roll at the moment, spent Friday night terminating the rest of the loom under the car. All sensors now have connectors and plugged in. Not operational though, have to do the messy oil connections and they are at the lowest point so its going to be a mess. Will probably drain the gearbox and diff and do a fluid change. Hopefully cleaner that way.
Managed to do the engine oil sensor without having it drain all over the place.
Combination sensor on the right doing oil temp & pressure from the sump/oil pump.
The sensor on the left is the return from the oil cooler. It will read lower until the thermostat opens up then we can see what is really happening and if the cooler is doing its job.



I really can't mount the rest till i do some maintenance work and upgrades. Radiator will get swapped out when the front of the engine comes apart for the cams and manifold.
Gearbox and trans i can take care of, see how motivated i am this week.
The GT500 oil pump makes some pressure on dead cold 5w50, i even stopped and rechecked the calibration of the sensor.
It did come down pretty quickly as the temps came up. It was at 60 by the time i turned it off after a short idle to see if the sensor actually changed readings.

Wiring the power to the unit was made easy as i had run a decent feed to the rear of the car previously for the diff and trans cooler pumps and fan. Relays on the left.
Tapped off another supply to a fuse and switch that should mount through a nice hole Ford left close by. Normally this Haltech dash unit would be powered by a switched ignition supply, i'm just using it as an expensive data logger so a switch in the trunk for when its required will work fine.
At least i didn't have to go find a logger, i had it sitting here for the other car so money not spent is money saved apparently.
Best part about no back seats is you can just run everything under the seat delete, yes one day it may become a dedicated track toy and get an interior delete but for the time being i'm pretending.
Will mount everything properly and fix the wiring down when i have room to get into the trunk, small garage problems.

That just the leaves mounting the dash and hiding some wiring. Oh, and all the other stuff above. So i'm 50% of the way there.
But at least its alive.

 

[GAR944]

Its Friday again and another delivery.
Boss chain guides to go with the Boss chain tensioners at the suggestion of others who run high rpm.

They will end up spares as i don't read and just look at pictures.
They were already included in the kit i ordered previously.

Whats the chance the manifold and throttle body can turn up by next Friday

 

[GAR944]

Managed to find some time over the weekend to do some work for myself.
Trying to mount a largish display on a full interior car is interesting, without putting holes in everything being the big criteria.

Last piece to be done is the bridge at the top to stabilise it back to the dash, ran out of material and more importantly time.
Best part is its 3 pieces, soon to be 4, is that it can be removed easily for day to day and keep the central display clear. Just the first mounting piece staying in place.
Made progress which was encouraging.

 

[GAR944]

Productive night so far, bracket to stabilise to top, helps when you have some scrap aluminium with a nice fold already that even happened to be the right length to the fold. Have to have a win occasionally. Now to find some rubber to edge the fold into the speaker cover for a squeeze fit. It's just there to stop it wobbling front to back.

Bit of paint and some matching hardware to have it looking neat and unobtrusive as a big screen in front of the console can be.

 

[GAR944]

It appears Friday came early this week.

And i appreciate the little things, the guys @Lethalperformance are funny buggers.
Everyone needs a spare 10mm.



The only problem i have now is running out of excuses to dive into this rabbit hole.

 

[Dave_W]

Everyone needs a spare 10mm.

Search: 2 results found for "10mm"

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[Mad Hatter]

Looks nice and clean inside!

 

[GAR944]

Was on a bit of a roll this week, its been in the air too long again and i really want to have a drive.
Decided the radiator was an easy job and another box out of the way in my cramped garage.
After cursing Ford Engineers for this little quirk. Did they design the non air-conditioning version first. Really, simple task to some dubious wangling and old one out.

New improved one back in.

Temp sensors installed and plugged in.


Time to start putting the front end back on after a couple of months off.


Just ordered some quick disconnects for the gearbox and diff oil lines.
I still need to install the temp sensors and drain the oil so might as well us the opportunity to make future work less messy.
The gearbox has to come out soon for the nice Hyper Single clutch so i'm sure the boys doing it will be happy if i make their life easier.
Fingers crossed i can actually drive it next weekend.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Your work is always a fun read, though for old farts like JDee and me, we remember all too well and that is why our current machines are very lightly modded. But, that said, we do enjoy reading all the machinations of you sick youngsters because it is always easier to share a disease with others who understand your ailment, ha!

 

[GAR944]

Your work is always a fun read, though for old farts like JDee and me, we remember all too well and that is why our current machines are very lightly modded. But, that said, we do enjoy reading all the machinations of you sick youngsters because it is always easier to share a disease with others who understand your ailment, ha!

My body is telling me i'm not that young, i made it into the 1960's just.
But then again, maybe if i stopped doing young people stuff. Not likely though, someone has to be their bad influence. Like you bunch.
I enjoy the challenge and after sitting behind a desk all day, i need to actually do something properly constructive. Just wish i had more space.
My remedial massage lady loves to hear what i have done to myself between sessions.

 

[GAR944]

Another Friday and a busy week.
Have to drain the gearbox to put the temp sender in so quick disconnects for the cooler lines seemed appropriate. Will also help when the gearbox comes out for the clutch.

Have extras to do the diff lines as well.

While discussing oil thermostats with friends, i was checking out my photos of mine, and thought about getting an oil filter as i had dumped some oil while checking the state of a line.
Also was curious if i had burnt it after the previous temps i was seeing. Oil change was on the cards depending what the data logging tells me soon.
Either way, was looking for filters that fitted the unit and went down a little rabbit hole.
Needless to say when i came across these at half price, $15 AUD, so a couple of US dollars i didn't hesitate.

Really want to get the car off the quick jacks and have a drive, its winter here and the weather has been crap, its been too long. Need a fix.