Vertical links & camber arms - worthwhile GT350 upgrades?

Discussion in 'Suspension and Chassis' started by Teuton, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Teuton

    Teuton TMO Beginner

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    I am building a dual purpose street/track GT350 to have fun with on the street and run in the Advanced/instructor group at lapping and DE events.

    Round 1 will be Ford Racing lowering springs (mostly for looks ;) ), more front camber, rigid rear subframe mounts and 305 R comp tires.

    I would like to know if the rigid billet rear vertical links (urethane, Delrin or monoball) and billet rear camber arms (same bushing options) are worthwhile at this stage. I don't want to ruin the street ride/compliance but I do value a predictable and planted rear-end. Some web sites seem to suggest that the upgraded vertical links are designed to address wheel hop for drag launches more than to improve cornering stability.

    How much deflection do the stock rear camber arms allow during cornering? Maybe I should be upgrading the rear toe links instead or in conjunction with???

    Would appreciate experienced user feedback :)
     
  2. 8250RPM

    8250RPM TMO Addict

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    Save your money on the vertical links. No gains.
    I would do this depending on your budget.

    Front:
    - Vorshlag or maxim Motorsport Camber plates.

    - BMR or ford performance springs. Preferably BMR as they are linear rate not progressive like FP springs. Or R springs if your on a budget.

    -Aftermarket sway bar end links. (The stock ones tend to bend) I myself like cortex. Full tilt boogie, or BMR. BMR has zerk fittings and hit the strut when I had them. I switched to cortex.

    - Cortex or steeda front lower control arm bearings if you are serious about track days.

    - Eibach, BMR or FP front sway bar if you are serious about track days.

    Rear:
    - BMR or Ford Performance springs. Again preferably BMR because linear rate.
    Or even R springs if your on a budget.

    - Ford performance or full tilt boogie toe bearings.

    - Adjustable toe links. BMR, steeda, full tilt boogie.

    - Cortex, Steeda or full tilt boogie rear lower control arm bearing.

    - IRS cradle bushings, lock out kit or alignment bushings.
    Ford performance requires dropping the cradle.
    BMR makes a lock out kit that works great and does not require dropping the IRS cradle but still has very little cradle movement.
    Steeda also makes a cradle lock kit but in my opinion adds unnecessary weight.
    I prefer Ford Performance. But many use and like BMR.

    - Differential bushing are good but add more NVH. It’s not necessary to add diff bushings.
    But I like the ford performance bushings for a dedicated track car / serious street car.

    - Save your money on the vertical links.

    - Adjustable camber links are nice and make adjusting the rear camber a lot easier over oem.
    Nobody makes a good arm except full tilt boogie. Stay away from all the others.
    BMR is soon to release theirs and from what Kelly shown me it looks like a winner.

    - Rear sway bar I’d keep stock or go with an R.
    If it’s a full track car get a Eibach or FP.

    - Rear sway bar links. Cortex, BMR, steeda.

    The wheel hop is from the rear lower control arm bushing and IRS cradle movement. Not the vertical links.


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  3. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Don’t forget some lightweight wheels too. With a square setup of 305 SC2’s on Apex 19x11 wheels I dropped 10 lbs a corner. Even more with a set of Forgelines. You’ll notice the difference.
     
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  4. Teuton

    Teuton TMO Beginner

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    Thanks for the reply. A few questions.

    Do the rear toe links or upper camber arms have a lot of bushing deflection under load? At this point I am not concerned with range of adjustability, just removing some of the vague feeling from deflection in the rear. Should either of these links be upgraded pronto?

    I don't want to use solid / monoball lower control bearings on the street.

    How does the factory R rear sway bar compare to the original GT350 bar and the aftermarket bars? Has anyone calculated the effective spring rates for each?
     
  5. bpracer

    bpracer Mark

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    R rear sway bar is 1/16" larger diameter.
     
  6. 8250RPM

    8250RPM TMO Addict

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    The oem toe link itself isn’t the problem. The toe bushing is.
    Once you replace the toe bushing and lower control arm bushing with a bearing most / all of your wheel hop will go away with the addition of a IRS cradle lock out or solid IRS cradle bushings.

    The bearings do not add any NVH.


    The rear R bar is larger and stiffer.
    The R springs are stiffer in the front.

    Funny you ask because I have both the R springs and rear R bar for sale on Facebook.


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  7. HextallS550

    HextallS550 TMO Intermediate

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    I have the full Ford Performance delrin toe link, aluminum/delrin rear cradle and diff kit along with Steeda solid bushings in the front and rear control arms, no wheel hop (I'm 707 at the wheels) and noticeably improved feeling in the ass end at speed. No real NVH that I noticed.
     
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  8. ldp82

    ldp82 TMO Beginner

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    I mostly street my car. I just put on light wheels, Vorshlag camber plates, spherical bearings all around front and rear BMR lock out, and yes vertical links (wish I had waited on the them). This made the car feel much softer so I added R springs and rear bar. I am very happy with how the car came out. Where in the North are you? I am in MA is that close?
     
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  9. steveespo

    steveespo Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child Moderator

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    I have just done the Maximum Motorsport camber plates, BMR springs, Ford Performance GT350 adjustable race sway bar kit, BMR lock outs, BMR vertical links with spherical bearings, BMR toe links, Ford toe bushings, and OP Mustang front control arms with spherical bearings on my 2018 PPL2 car. The car feels super tight with much better transitional roll stability than stock and the ride has not been compromised at all. The Magna Ride really adjusts for all conditions and keeps it smooth. I will be testing it on the NASCAR course at Watkins Glen this weekend and am sure the performance will be improved.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  10. dsm_mikey

    dsm_mikey TMO Beginner

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    Hello,

    I am new to this forum but have been lurking for some time.

    I have a 2016 GT350R that I track fairly regularly at Road America.

    I currently have the Vorshlag Camber plates (No question better than MM plates I removed), FP Oil breathers (Both) and run GLOC R16 front and R10 Rear pads with Castrol SRF Fluid.

    I just purchased the full FULL TILT BOOGIE kit:

    1. S550 Adjustable Vertical Link
    2. S550 Adjustable Toe Link
    3. S550 Complete Adjustable Upper Control Arm Assemblies
    4. S550 Lower Control Arm Spherical Bearing Assembly
    5. S550 Knuckle Spherical Bearling Assmebly

    and
    the Ford Performance Subframe Mount and Diff Mount Kits.

    I am having these parts put in next week. I believe my next run at Road America is Mid September. I will report back on how these parts make the car feel.

    I am excited. I hope these changes make the car better handling at the track. I also hope it doesn't ruin the car off the track!

    Thanks for reading!

    Mike
     
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  11. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    @dsm_mikey welcome to TMO. We look forward to reading your impressions of the FTB kit.
     
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  12. Protouring

    Protouring TMO Intermediate

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    wheres the best place to buy SC2?
     
  13. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Tire Rack of course. They currently Offer a $70 gift card with the purchase of four Michelin tires. Please use the Tire Rack link at the top of the page.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-31 at 4.22.24 PM.png
     
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  14. VoodooStang

    VoodooStang TMO Intermediate

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  15. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    FTBR..wise choice
    Trying to get Bruce to do more on the webpage..

    I always recommend the Ford Performance stuff, but once you leave the "reservation" FTBR is hard to beat.
     
  16. JeffV8

    JeffV8 TMO Race

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    I had ordered BMR adjustable camber links then I found out they wouldn’t have been shipped until after May 7th. My Alignment is on the 8th so B876C899-8E24-40BF-8D9B-31B2F14348C4.jpeg I got Steeda ones. I didn’t see the Full tilt ones until now.
     
  17. Mystic_Cobra

    Mystic_Cobra TMO Intermediate

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    I grabbed this post in this thread because it seems like the closest thing I could find here that described the path to a better handling track/DD GT350 and the order for a step-by-step build up. Maybe we should clean it up and make it a sticky???

    SO.... I just finished my first track day in THIS CAR with my track tires (first 2 heat cycles). I have raced wheel-to-wheel for many years and I was tired of working on the car so much. This car is faster than my American Iron car and I'm still getting comfortable in this car.
    I want to keep this car my DD (6000 miles and counting) and do fun repeatable track days about once a month. I'm NOT out there to beat anyone or "win". I also planned to keep the car stock but we all know how that goes. :rolleyes:
    I do want to make sensible "tweaks" (like the clutch pedal spring and throttle pedal spacers I added) that make the car more consistent and more fun but I don't want another racecar. I don't want more noticeable NVH. But I'll probably be doing the Ford Perf shifter soon. This one is too sloppy.

    So far:
    -MM Caster Camber plates w/maxed neg camber. I'm not planning to change alignment between track and street but I am swapping wheels/pads when I bleed the brakes before each event.
    -Apex EC7 19x11 305/30/19 RoyoR888R (front spacers/ARP studs) Started out 32 psi COLD at all four and reached 41-42 PSI HOT in my last session. My on my Toyo experience with the RA1 and R888, I was planning to run 40 HOT and then adjust down from there.
    -Raybestos race pads/Motul fluid

    My car is bottoming out the front splitter on Shenandoah (Summit Pt) in the carousel (I did have a passenger that session but it hit when I was by myself too). I can definitely feel a bunch of body roll in the slow corners. I am considering the Ford Perf springs and maybe roll bars but I DO NOT want to lower the car and create more rubbing. I'll be ordering the Splitter Bumpers shortly to minimize the splitter damage. I've already ground halfway through several of the OEM bumpers/fasteners.
    If these springs will lower the car just a small amount (say a quarter inch) at static height but give me the stiffer setup I need under load, I would be okay with that. I have gotten comfortable going extremely slow over speed bumps and entering driveways and I do drive this car daily unless the weather is bad.

    Are the above mods listed in a good order to install?
    I would prefer to stick with Ford parts whenever possible and MM since I raced with their stuff for over ten years but I understand that in some cases others make better stuff.


    thanks!
     
  18. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    There is a solution for bottoming. I have it on my GT350 and it works very well.

    It requires a significant investment, though. You replace all four shocks with GT350R shocks and replace the Vehicle Dynamics Module with a DSC Sport controller. The DSC allows you to ramp the shocks to full hard (which is hard enough) to keep the suspension from compressing (or extending, for that matter) beyond a limit that you can program on a corner by corner basis.

    If you're going that far, it's worth investing in a pair of GT350R front springs and rear sway bar as well. With the DSC controller, you actually get a very comfortable DD ride in "Comfort" mode, and a very controlled track ride.
     

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