VW emissions scandal

[PhilTaylor]

VW starts to admit higher cost, plus discounts starting:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/21/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0SF1FU20151021
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-21/vw-offers-deals-to-prop-up-u-s-sales-after-emissions-scandal

stolen documents? interesting but not clear if its relevant yet:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/german-authorities-investigating-missing-vw-emissions-scandal-file-1445427635

exactly:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-21/how-could-volkswagen-s-top-engineers-not-have-known-

 

[PhilTaylor]

Resell Value hit:
http://www.npr.org/2015/10/26/450238773/emissions-scandal-is-hurting-vw-owners-trying-to-resell

More Suspensions at VW:
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151025/ANE/151029900/vw-suspends-key-exec-in-emissions-rigging-scandal-reports-say

VW Posts Loss:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/28/volkswagen-posts-first-quarterly-loss-in-15-years
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/volkswagen-posts-loss-as-emissions-scandal-weighs/ar-BBmwOYQ?ocid=ansmsnmoney11

Restructure?:
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/ceo-volkswagen-restructure-wake-emissions-scandal-article-1.2415093

Deaths in England?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11960254/Volkswagen-emissions-scandal-could-kill-200-Britons-warns-MIT-and-Harvard.html

Deaths in US:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/vw-excess-emissions-linked-to-60-us-deaths-study.html

Porsche?
http://www.ibtimes.com/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-expanded-include-porsche-2165749
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/autos/volkswagen-porsche-emission-cheating-scandal/index.html

 

[Berol]

Just as bad as the cheating was on VW's part, so is the media hysteria surrounding it.

The CNBC article is speculative at best. Not scientific and not news worthy.

 

[WinterSucks]

Just as bad as the cheating was on VW's part, so is the media hysteria surrounding it.

The CNBC article is speculative at best. Not scientific and not news worthy.

Let the panic begin! You know the media has no clue what they are talking about when they write that VW installed a piece of software for the defeat... The ECU does not have an operating system on it like your phone that you install an app on...

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Actually it does, and it follows the engine management software program to turn up and down the emissions controls when it detects certain vehicle operating conditions.

But the big news this morning is the EPA announced their findings that another form of cheat software is installed in their 3.0L 6 cylinder diesels used by Audi and Porsche.

VW announced the EPA is wrong in this case and denies this EPA claim.

302 Hi Pro

 

[WinterSucks]

So that means it is now truly software and not firmware written by an engineer anymore...no wonder they have problems...

ALWAYS run away screaming when you hear someone say "we'll just fix that in software..."

 

[four-walling]

Now the gasoline vehicle results are kinked.

(from the Wall Street Journal)

Volkswagen Understated Carbon Dioxide Emissions

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said it found so-called defeat devices on 3.0 liter diesel engines used in larger Volkswagen sport-utility vehicles such as Porsche’s Cayenne. ENLARGE
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said it found so-called defeat devices on 3.0 liter diesel engines used in larger Volkswagen sport-utility vehicles such as Porsche’s Cayenne. Photo: Zuma Press

By
William Boston
Updated Nov. 3, 2015 3:10 p.m. ET
Volkswagen AG said it understated the level of carbon dioxide emissions in its past certifications for about 800,000 cars, an admission that broadens the scope of the German auto maker’s emissions-cheating scandal.

For the first time, Volkswagen admitted to providing regulators with inaccurate information about its cars’ CO2 emissions, a key greenhouse gas, and drew its gasoline-powered cars into likely recalls that previously had been limited to its diesel-fueled vehicles.

Europe’s largest auto maker estimated the financial risk to the company from the new admission was about €2 billion ($2.19 billion), but didn’t explain how it reached that figure. Last week, the company recorded a charge to earnings of €6.7 billion to pay for the costs of fixing diesel cars affected by software that could lower emissions during laboratory testing.

The Wolfsburg, Germany, company’s supervisory board said in a statement it was “deeply concerned” about the latest revelations that the company misstated CO2 emissions in addition to cheating on nitrogen-oxide tests. The board said it intended to meet soon “to consult on further measures and consequences.”

The company disclosed the error on Tuesday after conducting its own emissions tests. The report that some gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles exceed CO2 levels is a fresh blow after its admission in September that 11 million diesel-powered vehicles world-wide could have defeat devices that lowered tailpipe emissions of nitrogen oxides during testing.

Volkswagen initiated an internal investigation after admitting some diesel-powered cars with model years between 2009 and 2015 used software that allowed vehicles to cut NOX emissions during laboratory tests. U.S. and European authorities have begun regulatory and criminal probes.

The auto maker said it was in contact with regulatory agencies to determine steps needed to clarify the situation and to establish accurate values for the CO2 emissions of the affected vehicles.

“From the very beginning I set out to ensure that we mercilessly and completely clear up this situation,” said Volkswagen Chief Executive Matthias Müller in a statement, “This is a painful process but there is no alternative.”

Volkswagen gave no details about which vehicles or engines are affected by the misstated CO2 levels. Industry analysts said cars sold in Europe are likely most affected.

“VW is leaving us speechless,” said Arndt Ellinghorst, automotive analyst at Evercore ISI, a research group.

Tuesday’s revelation came a day after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency leveled new charges against Volkswagen. The EPA said it found defeat devices on 3.0 liter diesel engines used in larger Volkswagen sport-utility vehicles such as its Touraeg, Porsche’s Cayenne, Audi ’s Q5 and Q7, and Audi A6 and A8 sedans. The regulator said the vehicles it tested had increased nitrogen-oxide emissions up to nine times the allowable standard.

Related Video
Volkswagen's admission that it used software to manipulate the results of emission testing to sidestep pollution standards in millions of cars has rocked the auto maker. And the figures involved are pretty staggering. WSJ's Dipti Kapadia explains the scandal in numbers. Photo: Getty Images
Volkswagen disputed the EPA’s claims, saying it didn’t install any emissions-cheating software on the engines used in these vehicles.

Volkswagen shares, which have slumped badly amid the emissions scandal, fell early Tuesday, but finished off less than 2% at €109.35 ($119.69) in 4 p.m. trading in Frankfurt. The auto maker disclosed the CO2 misstatements after the end of trading in Germany.

Monday’s allegations by the EPA hit Porsche, Volkswagen’s sports-car brand and big profit center, for the first time. Mr. Müller previously ran Porsche, and the latest news raised questions of what he might have known about engines at Porsche.

Investors in Europe sold shares on concern that the new EPA allegations could threaten Mr. Müller just over a month after he took charge in the wake of Volkswagen’s admission that it had cheated on emissions tests by using a so-called defeat device on up to 11 million small and midsize diesel-powered cars.

That admission led to the resignation of Martin Winterkorn, the former CEO, and catapulted Mr. Müller from head of Porsche AG to chief of Volkswagen. Now, analysts are asking whether an insider like Mr. Müller is the right person to lead Volkswagen out of the worst crisis in the company’s 78-year history.

“The allegations are all the more serious given that VW’s new CEO Matthias Müller came from Porsche and any hint of further deception could well see his position come under scrutiny,” said Michael Hewson, chief market analyst at CMC Markets, a brokerage.

Mr. Müller became Porsche chief in 2010. An insider, he was a protégé of his predecessor and liked by the Porsche-Piëch clan that controls Volkswagen’s voting stock. He oversaw Volkswagen group product planning from 2007 to 2010.

“I was astonished that Porsche’s Matthias Müller was appointed CEO of VW,” said David Buik, a market commentator at Panmure Gordon. “There was always a chance that Porsche and Audi would be directly or indirectly involved in the diesel saga.”

Volkswagen’s diesel woes have kept investors on edge, but seem to have little impact on German consumers. Germany’s motor vehicle agency reported Tuesday that registrations of new diesel-powered cars rose 6% in October.

“Diesel is a key technology for us,” said Harald Krüger, BMW AG chief executive, during an earnings call on Tuesday. “At the moment, we are seeing no impact on sales from the diesel issue, but I must add that it is still early days.”

Write to William Boston at [email protected]

 

[WinterSucks]

"misstated CO2 levels" of their gasoline engines? Are they seriously expecting anyone to believe they misstated anything right now? I guess they would rather be seen as inept than adding to the deliberate cheating admissions.

Oh and GM is recalling another 1.4M vehicles...because they catch fire...

 

[PhilTaylor]

yikes, Alice, the rabbit hole seems pretty deep today. And it doesn't look like media hysteria given VAGs very weak responses.

3.0L Diesels too, at Porsche and Audi, 10k more cars from '14 and '15, unknown in '16?
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2015/11/internen_untersuchungen.html

Gasoline engines pollute more C02 than "supposed to"? yet another defeat device, 800k more cars?
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028890_on-top-of-diesel-emissions-scandal-vw-discovers-irregularities-in-c02-levels-of-800000-cars

VAG responses are "pro-forma" and not an enthusiastic defense:
https://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/en/detailpage/-/detail/Statement-on-the-announcement-by-the-United-States-Environmental-Protection-Agency-EPA/view/2853105/7a5bbec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=0TTx1aRP

EPA clarifies on 2nd defeat device:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/vw-software-emissions-scandal-widens-to-include-porsche/

which is a great article with great links, like directly to VAG PR about the topic and EPA notices like:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/bd4379a92ceceeac8525735900400c27/4a45a5661216e66c85257ef10061867b!OpenDocument

VAG admits its there, but the cars "had a software function which had not been adequately described in the application process", yeah right, quote from Ars article:
"VW's software on these vehicles includes one or more Auxiliary Emission Control Devices (AECD) that the company failed to disclose, describe and justify in their applications for certificate of conformity for each model. Every manufacturer must apply to EPA for and be approved for a certificate of conformity for each model each year, otherwise it is illegal to introduce the cars into commerce. An AECD designed to circumvent emissions test is a defeat device.
"
Porsche is "surprised", again, with another very "pro-forma" statement of innocence, right. Usually when the corporate body feels its innocent, there are strong protestations and statements about protecting corporate rights against government intrusion and using the legal process to defend themselves against said intrusion:
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=958&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PorschePressNews+%28Porsche+Press+News%29

Both the statement from VAG and Porsche seem more like CYA for corporate governance lawsuits than anything else.

Smoking gun there is a major problem, VAG issues a "stop sale", which just about admits there is a problem otherwise they would wait for the legal issues to sort out, or even go for an injunction against the government if they thought they would prevail on the facts:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/foreign/2015/11/04/volkswagen-stop-sale/75149606/

At this point, it looks like VAG is a corporate cesspool of cheating for profit by killing people and making them sick, see my previous posts about estimated deaths, health issues, and health costs.

Jail time is definitely warranted, so perhaps is being barred from an exec position in the industry like insider-trading and the like finance scandals.

Corporate governance is obviously a problem at VAG, and the new guy Mueller was in charge at Porsche when the aforementioned 3.0 Diesels were engineered. He doesn't smell clean.

More popcorn in order, the gift from VAG that keeps on giving.

 

[PhilTaylor]

denial, not that device is there, but that it doesn't "alter emissions characteristics in a forbidden manner" yeah right
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100738_vw-in-germany-denies-epa-v-6-diesel-charges-software-not-used-in-forbidden-manner

impact up to 200 dead in UK?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11960254/Volkswagen-emissions-scandal-could-kill-200-Britons-warns-MIT-and-Harvard.html

and 60 dead in US?:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/vw-excess-emissions-linked-to-60-us-deaths-study.html

causing deaths for profit, that deserves jail time and your family name stigmatized.

VAG down 40% since this started:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/04/vw-volkswagen-shares-slide-10-carbon-dioxide-revelations

investors uneasy over VAG "confrontation" with US EPA:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100756_more-vw-emission-irregularities-as-investors-question-confrontation-with-epa

 

[four-walling]

Volkswagen, Audi Halt Sales of 3.0-Liter Diesel 2013-2016 Models...

Per today's WSJ...no need to say more...

 

[PhilTaylor]

Volkswagen, Audi Halt Sales of 3.0-Liter Diesel 2013-2016 Models...

Per today's WSJ...no need to say more...

Interesting, at first Audi said they were going to continue to sell. Too early to say for sure, but usually if the corporation thinks it will prevail on the facts they fight to continue to profit. So caving that fast looks suspect.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

I wonder where they were in the 2016 MY 3.0l Diesel EPA certification process and if they withdrew the application like VoA did with the 2016 2.0l Diesel?

Apparently they still do not have a fix.

With the news of their gas engine emissions, they are in serious trouble. Should this issue mushroom like the Diesel, I wonder if the corporation will survive through the 2016 calendar year.

It might happen as a bankruptcy with German Goverment intervention.

Whatever happens, it is truly a shame for the men and women of the general VW workforce who would suffer the most from the actions of a few.

302 Hi Pro

 

[four-walling]

Volkswagen Does U-Turn in EPA Dispute

New Volkswagen cars arrive at AutoNation in Las Vegas in September. ENLARGE
New Volkswagen cars arrive at AutoNation in Las Vegas in September. Photo: Zuma Press

By
Mike Spector And
William Boston
Updated Nov. 4, 2015 7:07 p.m. ET
Volkswagen AG reversed course in a fresh dispute with U.S. regulators, halting sales of thousands of additional diesel vehicles amid claims they may contain illegal software that can cheat on emissions tests.

The German auto maker on Wednesday told its U.S. dealers to stop selling Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from the 2013 through 2016 model years equipped with 3.0-liter diesel engines. The move came two days after Volkswagen rejected Environmental Protection Agency allegations that some of the engines contained so-called defeat devices capable of duping emissions tests, and said it didn’t plan to stop selling the affected vehicles.

The sales halt represents another likely financial blow for Volkswagen, coming a day after it said a broader set of infractions could affect 800,000 more cars and cost it about $2.2 billion. The company, embroiled in an emissions-cheating scandal that emerged in mid-September and initially affected 11 million vehicles world-wide and nearly 500,000 in the U.S., has been scrambling to manage a crisis that has damaged its reputation and cost its chief executive his job. Volkswagen earlier set aside $7.3 billion for those repairs.

Volkswagen shares fell 9.5% in Germany on Wednesday amid the widening financial risks. The European Commission said on Wednesday that the auto maker could be fined for misstating the levels of carbon-dioxide emissions and fuel economy in its cars. Germany plans to test all Volkswagen cars for fuel-economy, CO2 and nitrogen-oxide emissions after Volkswagen admitted some vehicles it tested raised questions about past claims.

Volkswagen’s disclosure of CO2 reporting irregularities were at the heart of a Tuesday disclosure that also widened the scope of the company’s emissions scandal to include for the first time vehicles that run on gasoline.

Credit ratings firm Moody’s Investors Service on Wednesday downgraded some of Volkswagen’s corporate debt, citing “mounting risks to Volkswagen’s reputation and future earnings” in the wake of new disclosures in the widening emissions crisis.

The U.S. sales halt goes beyond the models the EPA cited earlier this week. The EPA on Monday said roughly 10,000 Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche vehicles with 3.0-liter diesel engines and from model years between 2014 and 2016 featured illegal software that can allow vehicles to emit less during tests than during normal driving conditions. Porsche stopped sales of 2014-2016 diesel-powered Cayenne sport-utility vehicles in the U.S. on Tuesday.

The models cited by the EPA include the 2015 Porsche Cayenne; the 2014 Volkswagen Touareg; and 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L, and Q5. Volkswagen’s newly halted sales broaden beyond those vehicles to include other older and newer models, such as the Audi Q7, company officials said. Volkswagen doesn’t yet have a tally of all the new vehicles affected by the sales stoppage, the company officials said.

U.S. Volkswagen officials said the company is halting sales of all the models while it reviews data regulators found in testing, and discusses with them how emissions software on the vehicles work. The broader sales halt isn’t meant to suggest more vehicles have problematic software, the company officials said.

Volkswagen previously halted sales of diesel-powered cars in the U.S. with 2.0-liter engines after revelations it installed defeat devices on nearly 500,000 of them.

The company withdrew a request for U.S. regulators to certify the newest of those diesel models for sale after failing to disclose an emissions-control device. No evidence has yet emerged that the device on those vehicles is capable of gaming emissions tests.

Separately, Volkswagen on Wednesday recalled nearly 92,000 newer cars in the U.S. for a faulty camshaft lobe that can shear off, reducing engine and braking power. A number of vehicles sold in Canada also are affected.

The German auto maker ordered dealers to stop selling certain 2015-2016 model year cars until the company comes up with a fix for them, according to a bulletin to dealers reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Volkswagen is still trying to determine a cause for the defect and a repair may not be completed until the end of March, according to a filing with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The 91,867 models affected include the Jetta, Passat, Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Golf/GTI and Golf Sportwagen. Overall, the company through the end of October this year sold roughly 294,600 vehicles in the U.S., including about 33,000 SUVs.

No injuries have been reported, a Volkswagen spokeswoman said.

Write to Mike Spector at [email protected] and William Boston at [email protected]

 

[WinterSucks]

I imagine the conversation like this:

VAG: No we didn't cheat on emissions with the 3.0L V6's.
EPA: you know it's another $37,500 per vehicle you sell, right?
VAG: Sorry I misstated what I just said...

This is turning into a circus. And not a good one. Germans make poor clowns.

 

[PhilTaylor]

Sales down:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/13/news/companies/volkswagen-sales-emission-scandal/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/11/18/volkswagen-volumes-start-showing-the-impact-of-the-scandal/

VAG starts to pay owners:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/09/news/companies/volkswagen-pay-owners/index.html

VAG apologizes in print:
http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/11/15/9739960/volkswagen-apologizes-with-full-page-ad-in-dozens-of-newspapers

VAG 2016 models at risk now?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11998884/VW-emissions-scandal-widens-to-2016-models.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-carbon-dioxide-1.3321519

400,000 plus added to the 800,000 with CO2 "issues"?

 

[coboss]

Sales down:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/13/news/companies/volkswagen-sales-emission-scandal/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/11/18/volkswagen-volumes-start-showing-the-impact-of-the-scandal/

VAG starts to pay owners:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/09/news/companies/volkswagen-pay-owners/index.html

VAG apologizes in print:
http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/11/15/9739960/volkswagen-apologizes-with-full-page-ad-in-dozens-of-newspapers

VAG 2016 models at risk now?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11998884/VW-emissions-scandal-widens-to-2016-models.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-carbon-dioxide-1.3321519

400,000 plus added to the 800,000 with CO2 "issues"?

From the Money article:

" "I personally feel insulted by their peace offering," said Nevada resident Dave Thompson, who owns a 2010 diesel Jetta sportswagon. He said buyers paid a $5,000 premium to get the diesel engine and the better fuel economy with the promise that it was also good for the environment.

"That trust is gone," he said. "

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Anyone who thought buying a freaking DIESEL was "good for the environment" is seriously misguided. The EPA "Smog Rating" of an oh-so-clean Golf diesel is the same as an evil 5.0 Mustang. But they never let facts get in the way of their ignorance.

With that said, I'd feel insulted by VW's "peace offering", too. It is an obvious attempt to try to get as many people as possible to sign a waiver saying they won't be eligible for the later and almost certainly bigger rewards that will be given owners through class action settlements. A $500 gift card and a $500 dealer credit when the value of your vehicle has dropped by thousands AND we still don't even know what the fix will be for the emissions issue? There are a lot of rumors that even if VW can engineer the emissions down on these cars, and they can afford to fix them, that the "fix" will seriously cripple the driveability.

VW is in a world of hurt.

 

[WinterSucks]

I am not so sure that a class action lawsuit will yield better results. It will drag on for years and the lawyers will keep 90% of the money. I have been listed in those before for stocks and purchased products and never received anything over $5. The last one got me a whopping $0.00something per share when the company obviously inflated their stock over 1000% percent...

The little guy never wins in these situations. The lawyers and EPA will win.

 

[PhilTaylor]

VW has a fix for in Europe:
http://fortune.com/2015/11/25/volkswagen-emissions-fix/
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/24/vw-release-fix-cars-affected-emissions-scandal-chief-executive
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/25/9800146/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-cheat-fix-video

I am somewhat skeptical the upstream filter change has impact. TBD on a US fix and on the 3.0l engine fix.

 

[TMSBOSS]

A piece of mesh and a software upgrade is all thats needed??? More than skeptical. :

US cars will need more??? Like a real fix.

Sounds like the German government bailing it self out with this "Fix"!