Winter mods

[cloud9]

And the last bastion of the "Winter Mod Wars" continues. Your up Gary (The MGW doesn't count, you still have a stock CAI ;D )

MGW doesn't count?? Where's your roll bar then? ;D

 

[PeteInCT]

It's a mini roll bar, but I have one !

 

[VoodooBoss]

It's a mini roll bar, but I have one !

I don't think that counts. But keep me in mind when you buy a real one.

Can you use the stock shift knob with the MGW?

Has anyone with shifting problems tried a torque limiter?

http://www.cheperformance.com/CartGenie/prod-318.htm

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Can you use the stock shift knob with the MGW?

Yes

 

[PeteInCT]

What Yellow said, you can use stock or switch to theirs. It's an option at purchase time.

As far as a torque limiter - the issues with the shifter seem to be totally about how it's constructed and the tolerences it's built under. A lot of it inside is plastic, I'll take pics of my stock one if you wish. IMHO, there's just too much play in the mechanism for it to be very effective when you're trying to shift quickly and pulling G's at the same time. I have no issues with the MT-82 or the clutch (maybe I will after beating on her all season, who knows), but the shifter is truly a weak point - as stated in some write ups. Even though the 302S and 302R are not running the same MT-82 tranny I'd bet my life that the design and construction of the shifters in those cars looks nothiing like ours. And if it does then all pro drivers are replacing them for sure.

 

[VoodooBoss]

While I'm sure the MGW shifter is a big improvement in the feel and accuracy of the shifter I'm not fully convinced that it solves the issue (for those that are having issues) of shifting on track in high torque situations. Scott said it didn't solve the issue for him although there could be other issues in play. If you go back and read the comments about the shifter being the weak link they state the issue is the shifter is connected to the tranny AND the body. While the MGW has a redesigned shifter bracket it still attaches to the body of the car. If there is movement between the tranny and body adding a torque limiter might help. I don't know one way or another if the torque limiter helps, it has on other Mustangs, and that's why I'm asking.

 

[PeteInCT]

Good points, but I believe the 'play' in the mechanism is what's working against the fact that the shifter is connected to the MT-82 and the body. There are forces in play when the body and the MT-82 don't move together in perfect sync, obviously they can't because they are two separate masses that are meant to move independently to each other (unless you have a Boss that has the MT-82 securely bolted to the frame at multiple points ;D ) This being true, the linkages connected to the shifter are seeing different angles based on the difference in movement between these two masses at the points where they are connected. If, at these points, there is little or no 'play' in the that mechanical connection and it has less overall friction at those joints, the fact that the shifter is mounted to the body of the Boss should negated or at least reduced by the design of the MGW.

That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it! (partially because Cloud just ordered his and we don't want to scare him off before he takes delivery ;D )

Disclaimer: I am neither a mechanic, salesman or lawyer. And I don't work for MGW. And no animals were harmed in the writing of this post.

 

[cloud9]

Good points, but I believe the 'play' in the mechanism is what's working against the fact that the shifter is connected to the MT-82 and the body. There are forces in play when the body and the MT-82 don't move together in perfect sync, obviously they can't because they are two separate masses that are meant to move independently to each other (unless you have a Boss that has the MT-82 securely bolted to the frame at multiple points ;D ) This being true, the linkages connected to the shifter are seeing different angles based on the difference in movement between these two masses at the points where they are connected. If, at these points, there is little or no 'play' in the that mechanical connection and it has less overall friction at those joints, the fact that the shifter is mounted to the body of the Boss should negated or at least reduced by the design of the MGW.

That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it! (partially because Cloud just ordered his and we don't want to scare him off before he takes delivery ;D )

Disclaimer: I am neither a mechanic, salesman or lawyer. And I don't work for MGW. And no animals were harmed in the writing of this post.

Hey I'm right here guys!

Actually after driving it yesterday I did notice how much "play" there is in the stock shifter. Tightening it up would have to help some I am thinking even if it doesn't completely eliminate some missed shifts.

 

[PeteInCT]

What, you think you'll have missed shifts after installing the MGW ??? Not only does it eliminate all missed shifts but it makes you drive like Paul Brown. In fact, it makes you even start to look like him ! ;D LOL

Actually, if that was true then my wife may agree the MGW mod was one she was OK with....

 

[adam81]

I think we may be on to something here..... I never realized the shifter was bolted to the body until I read the article I posted about the comparison between the stock Boss and 302S. It mentioned the 302S shifter was linked directly to the trans and not the body at all. It makes sense to me that under certain circumstances the shifter could have issues based on the fact that part of it is bolted to a moving piece (trans) and part of it is attached to a stationary part (body). Now someone has to make a shifter that bolts just to the trans to test this theory....

 

[VoodooBoss]

Actually after driving it yesterday I did notice how much "play" there is in the stock shifter. Tightening it up would have to help some I am thinking even if it doesn't completely eliminate some missed shifts.

No doubt and that's what the aftermarket shifter brackets do, tighten up that slop. Mine feels tighter when putting lateral pressure on the shifter when shifting into 5th and 6th gears. It won't help much if any pulling straight back and fourth though. Regardless of how tight that connection is, and it's the tightest on the MGW since it's metal to metal, it's not going to eliminate the lateral movement between the trans and body, hence my question about the torque limiter.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I'm just putting a T56 Magnum on the future mod budget...

 

[PeteInCT]

6'th gear, what's that? REV THAT PUPPY !!!! ;D LOL

 

[VoodooBoss]

6'th gear, what's that? REV THAT PUPPY !!!! ;D LOL

We have these things out West called Freeways.

I read this over on SVT and thought it was worth posting here:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmysidecarr
Bump! I stumbled across this today:

2011 Mustang Transmission Swap - Toughen Your Transmission - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

Once available, the S197-spec T56 will be offered in a package to make purchasing and installing it in a 2011-newer Mustang an easy task. The kit includes a Tremec T56 Magnum S197 transmission, McLeod clutch (RST or RXT) and aluminum flywheel, choice of short-throw shifter (Tremec Adjustable Bias, Steeda Tri-Ax, or Pro 5.0), aluminum driveshaft, crossmember, and sensor hook-ups.
The S197-spec T56 Magnum offers several unique features; the first highlight that Burcham noted was the shifter arrangement. "The Magnum has a direct-shift setup rather than the semi-remote-mounted style that comes from the factory. The factory shifter is attached to both the body and the transmission, which causes issues when the power goes up.
"When you increase horsepower and torque, the unibody reacts more-now the shifter base is moving one way, while the transmission is moving another way, and that causes inconsistent shifting." The Magnum's direct-shift-style setup is far better for performance driving, both road race and drag race.
Direct-shift isn't the only benefit when converting to the new gearbox-the Magnum comes standard with a slip-yoke interface that lends itself nicely to use with a one-piece driveshaft. One major difference the driver will notice, aside from the shifting, is the gear ratios between the Getrag and T56 Magnum. The Magnum offers four forward gears, plus two Overdrive gears, while the Getrag has five regular gears and a single Overdrive gear.
T56 Magnum versus TR6060
"The T56 Magnum is essentially an aftermarket version of the TR-6060, which was first introduced in the Shelby GT500," said Nate Tovey of Tremec. The upgraded transmission had enough aftermarket-specific changes that the company felt it needed a new name, so it adopted the T56 Magnum moniker-a nod to its original T56 six-speed roots. Some of the major differences between the Magnum and TR-6060 include bearing upgrades, friction materials (carbon content) on the synchronizer blocker rings, dual speedometer pick-ups (electronic only for the S197-spec), dual cross-member mount threads, longer input shaft splines for multi-disc clutches, and hydraulic and mechanical release support systems.
A switch to this transmission does require a 26-spline clutch disc, two-bolt crossmember, and a one-piece driveshaft. This article outlines the '11 spec kit from JPC Racing but the company will also offer all the parts and pieces required for a '05-'10 conversion to the T56 Magnum.



Read more: 2011 Mustang Transmission Swap - Toughen Your Transmission - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_1102_ford_2011_mustang_transmission_swap/index.html

"

 

[cloud9]

Did they give a price tag for the whole package ???

 

[PeteInCT]

KA-CHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, we have HIGHways in CT with no tolls, hence the FREEway moniker. You CA boys have fancy names for things If you're hitting 7500 RPM in 6'th gear then you have an argument, otherwise REV THAT PUPPY !

- Brought to you by the US Petroleum Products Consortium


LOL ! Notice how Gary is totally staying out of this one ? ;D

 

[CaliMR]

I'm not sure I want a second overdrive gear. Besides the shifting and the lack of shifting sometimes, the gap between 2nd and 3rd is also an issue at least on the street. I would rather have closer gearing than wider, which having 4 real gears instead of 5 would probably do. I have had similar issues with several other cars, they seem to be optimized for 60 times rather than real roads, at least the windy mountain roads I tend to drive on. Have they released the ratios on it yet? Not that I would get one anyways, at least until several years down the road if I turn it into a full time track car.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Did they give a price tag for the whole package ???

Gary--Paul was saying the trans itself was going to be in the 2500-3500 range, so figure $5-6K for the full package w/ clutch & DS.

Cali--here are calculations based on the 2.66 first gear ratios that Tremec lists on their site, with shift points at 7400 and 7800 RPM redlines, and a 3000 RPM usable "floor":



If you have any doubts about the wider gears, just watch some of Smitty's or Paul Brown's videos. The car doesn't have a problem pulling.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Not to mention that the Magnum will undoubtedly carry more fluid than the MT82, so no worries about the transmission cooling, or you could at least run an external cooler if needed.

 

[CaliMR]

Stock according to my printout from the Ford website is

3.66
2.43
1.69
1.32
1.00
.65

It isn't that it doesn't have enough torque to deal with it, but I like a little more overlap especially since it is limited at 155 anyways and the 2nd overdrive is a waste if you don't highway it a lot. The motor doesn't really come alive until 5k rpm and it drops under that with the 2-3 shift already if you aren't pretty close to redline, which happens quite a bit when you are trying to avoid hitting the limiter by not downshifting before turns. Still used to turbo cars which do not react well to spooling after a shift while leaned over.

I'm also not saying it is not better gearing for a lot of people, but if there was a close ratio option it would be nice if I ever decide to dump the stock tranny. At this point it is all theoretical as I don't have any intention of changing it unless I make it a gutted racecar, but I already have one of those.