The Winter....errr, Spring Coyote Cooling project

[JrFish]

Life gets in the way, I’m sure you know. I hate to do this, I know there are 1MM+ threads about these subjects. But I have some specific questions I need a lil help with, or it’ll be Summer before I can get this thing off the rack. So, here goes…

I am in process of upgrading cooling system and will add an oil cooler before I put it all back together.
Car is a ’14 Base GT, other than CAI and a muffler delete, powertrain is stock. Overbuilding the coolant system relative to the power at this point, since we all know at some point I’ll be looking at power adders. Plus I'm in TX, aka the surface of the Sun.

Have a Kenny Brown 3x pass radiator, new set of silicone hoses from HPS, & GT500 Fan, proper gauges.

First dumb question: What is with these Ford OEM hose attachment devices? How do I remove the fitting from the OEM hose for install on my new radiator hose which does not have any fitting pre-installed for attachment to the Y-pipe? (see pics below) I refrained from tearing into the OEM hose and fitting, trying to rip the fitting from the hose, and destroying it in the process, just to see how it works. Was hoping you guys could save me from that fun.

I’ve got some other questions and I'd like to have a discussion about the oil cooler set up, but let me get the radiator and hoses mocked up before I morph it into all that.

TIA for any useful inputs.
Jim

 

[bauern]

To me the new hoses look like they just slip over and are clamped on the nipples.

 

[JrFish]

Yeah, it's not complicated, as I presumed. I was just hesitant to start hacking on the plastic fittings Ford uses to hose clamp the hoses onto the Y-pipe. I have never seen anything like that before. I exchanged w/HPS. You just cut the outer band in 1 or 2 places, it comes off, attach to the plastic Y-pipe like you would any other with the provided std hose clamps. Haven't done it yet, but nothing to it.

 

[JrFish]

So where I'm at now is deciding on the oil cooler set up. I'm pretty well decided on going with Mishismoto components on it, unless there is some other mfg I am not seeing. Bang for the buck & quality seems pretty good with them.

I am either piecing together what I want, or getting the kit (P# MMOC-MUS-11T). So I'm essentially running the comparison between the components in the kit plus a few extra, or just the turn key kit.

The tldr of it is: Kit includes a mounting bracket that I'd forgo if piece it together and costs about $50 more if my parts list is correct, but that includes an inline pre-filter I'd put in which is not included in the kit. ($57).

I am going to call Mishimoto and have them go through my parts list with me to make sure I am understanding what fittings I need. I have a few questions for anyone here if they are familiar w/the Mishimoto Thermostatic sandwhich plate (P# MMOP-SPTRM22) and how this whole set up goes together.

 

[67GTA]

So where I'm at now is deciding on the oil cooler set up. I'm pretty well decided on going with Mishismoto components on it, unless there is some other mfg I am not seeing. Bang for the buck & quality seems pretty good with them.

I am either piecing together what I want, or getting the kit (P# MMOC-MUS-11T). So I'm essentially running the comparison between the components in the kit plus a few extra, or just the turn key kit.

The tldr of it is: Kit includes a mounting bracket that I'd forgo if piece it together and costs about $50 more if my parts list is correct, but that includes an inline pre-filter I'd put in which is not included in the kit. ($57).

I am going to call Mishimoto and have them go through my parts list with me to make sure I am understanding what fittings I need. I have a few questions for anyone here if they are familiar w/the Mishimoto Thermostatic sandwhich plate (P# MMOP-SPTRM22) and how this whole set up goes together.

I have that complete kit that I just took off my car that I would make a you killer deal on. PM me if you’re interested.

 

[JeffV8]

I have that complete kit that I just took off my car that I would make a you killer deal on. PM me if you’re interested.

Why did you remove it ??

 

[67GTA]

Why did you remove it ??

I switched to a Setrab 948 setup while I had the engine out and made it part of an overall cooling upgrade including radiator, etc. The Gen 3 oil adapter uses -12 fittings and FP (as well as @Fabman) recommend using -12 lines throughout the system, which the Setrab has larger metric ports.

 

[RodS197]

I have that Mishimoto kit on my car. Installation was smooth. Sandwich plate works great. I put an oil temperature sensor on the hot side of the sandwich plate. You have to put a fitting on so the sensor does not impede flow.

The cooler bracket works well. The lines routed without issue. Since I have no AC condenser, the oil cooler is a little too far from the radiator. I ran it this way for the last few events of the season. Over the winter I boxed it all in.

It certainly isn’t the largest cooler at the party. However I do think it is sufficient for my stock motor. Some cooling is better than no cooling. Ran in the heat of the summer with no issues. Here are a few pictures.

 

[JrFish]

Thanks for the responses and input. @67GTA I’ll PM you. I’m not sure what direction I’m headed yet, but a ‘Killer Deal’ is a ‘Killer Deal’ so there’s that.

I’m curious about what you set up with the 948 Setrab. My thinking was that the 25 row Mishi cooler was probably sufficient for my current stock motor, and that later if I was pushing more HP I could leave the set up and just swap in a larger cooler. Might NOT that be that ez though, huh? (obviously, it never is)

What I recall on the discussions on the line size, the orifice openings were the limiting factor. Without going through the miles of threads on it, I don’t remember if they were discussing the orifice on the fittings, or if something like the sandwich plate or the cooler inlet/outlet dictated your maximum flow.
-Did you upgrade your oil pump? Would a stock pump put out acceptable pressure for -12AN lines to 948?
-I see that you relo’d your filter on the recent mods. Are you still running a thermostat?
-Wonder if the Mishi Thermostatic Sandwich plate would work with -12ANs.

 

[JrFish]

I have that Mishimoto kit on my car. Installation was smooth. Sandwich plate works great. I put an oil temperature sensor on the hot side of the sandwich plate. You have to put a fitting on so the sensor does not impede flow.

The cooler bracket works well. The lines routed without issue. Since I have no AC condenser, the oil cooler is a little too far from the radiator. I ran it this way for the last few events of the season. Over the winter I boxed it all in.

It certainly isn’t the largest cooler at the party. However I do think it is sufficient for my stock motor. Some cooling is better than no cooling. Ran in the heat of the summer with no issues. Here are a few pictures.

Thanks for the pics @RodS197

Is the bracket with the kit really useful? I figured I could fab some simple brackets if I piecemealed the kit together with different parts than what came with the kit.

Ya know, I bought the off-road bumper, and it still sits on the shelf. When I got it, I didn't really feel like it offered enough weight reduction to merit the trouble of drilling off the stock bumper support and putting it on. And, probably more importantly, my vanity got in the way. I want my tow loop below the bumper in the lower grill on the side, not center. So I'd have to cut that off and get creative on how to mount it to that bumper. Whereas, the stock bumper support makes it simple by just drilling through it and putting in some long bolts.

-Think the bracket will work on stock bumper support without too much hassle?
-Did you install a pressure gauge in there somewhere? I don't think I'm understanding how to mount the 2 gauges on the Mishi plate or if I need to mount 1 of them inline somewhere else.
-How much room do you have with the plate installed? Do you have to use a low profile filter of some sort?

 

[67GTA]

-Did you upgrade your oil pump? Would a stock pump put out acceptable pressure for -12AN lines to 948?
-I see that you relo’d your filter on the recent mods. Are you still running a thermostat?
-Wonder if the Mishi Thermostatic Sandwich plate would work with -12ANs.

I switched to the high volume GT500 oil pump that comes with the aluminum oil pan kit from Ford Performance. I think the stock pump would be adequate, as most of the oil pump mods are just stronger gears but don’t necessarily effect output.

No thermostat in the current setup since the car won’t be street legal in CA any longer.

Looking at the sandwich plate, -12 adapters would likely fit on the plate, but the question remains if the sandwich plate itself would be the bottleneck in the system.

From my experience, the Mishimoto setup worked well with the stock engine, even on hot summer track days. The original owner of the car installed this setup, and he chose to mount the cooler inverted on the bracket so it was in the air stream of the upper grill opening. The standard mounting location is largely blocked by the crash bar and bumper. Just mentioning it as an option, as it didn’t require any mods to the bracket. As Rod mentioned above, the stock mounting location leaves a gap to the radiator. Ducting like his will greatly improve the efficiency of the cooler

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I also did the gt500 pump and pan, with a 948 and -12 lines. I didn’t want to spend that much but also didn’t want to end up spending a lot more on doing it again if the mishi setup was insufficient and wanted the extra protection for the rotating assembly that the gt500 pump and pan should provide.

 

[RodS197]

Thanks for the pics @RodS197

Is the bracket with the kit really useful? I figured I could fab some simple brackets if I piecemealed the kit together with different parts than what came with the kit.

Ya know, I bought the off-road bumper, and it still sits on the shelf. When I got it, I didn't really feel like it offered enough weight reduction to merit the trouble of drilling off the stock bumper support and putting it on. And, probably more importantly, my vanity got in the way. I want my tow loop below the bumper in the lower grill on the side, not center. So I'd have to cut that off and get creative on how to mount it to that bumper. Whereas, the stock bumper support makes it simple by just drilling through it and putting in some long bolts.

-Think the bracket will work on stock bumper support without too much hassle?
-Did you install a pressure gauge in there somewhere? I don't think I'm understanding how to mount the 2 gauges on the Mishi plate or if I need to mount 1 of them inline somewhere else.
-How much room do you have with the plate installed? Do you have to use a low profile filter of some sort?

Yes, the bracket will fit with the stock bumper structure. It bolts to the two inner bolts on left and right on the radiator side. Modifying the Mishimoto bracket or fabbing up a better one would not be a problem.

Yes, in the picture with the oil filter, the temperature gauge sender is mounted to the hot side of the sandwich plate. I put the oil pressure gauge sender where the stock sender is, but put a T with a braided line and mounted the oil pressure sender remotely. On my previous car I lost 2 oil pressure senders that were mounted on the motor. The vibration kills them.

The only clearance was the oil temperature sender is really close to the alternator, so I put an elbow on it so it extended in the direction of the filter.

The Ford Racing "820" filters are too large for the sandwich plate so I went with the K&N oil filter which is the stock diameter. No clearance issues for the oil filter.

 

[JrFish]

Ok, back to it. What's the general opinion on water pumps and thermostats??
I don't see any reason not to blow for and install a higher flow pump to go with the big radiator while it's all apart. Is the FRPP Gen 2 pump the best option (PN M-8501-M52A)? Anyone know if it bolts up simply?

As for Stat, what's the opinion on temps? I haven't flashed the tune yet, so think it's running the stock tune. Does the ECU get screwy in any way on the if I drop the temps some when I'm just putting around on the street?

 

[JrFish]

I have that complete kit that I just took off my car that I would make a you killer deal on. PM me if you’re interested.

@67GTA I sent you a PM if you're interested in getting that out of your parts bin, I'd take it. Otherwise, I think I figure out a 12AN set up on my own, rather than buy the Mishi kit new. Just let me know if you still have it and that's interesting to you.
Thx!!!

 

[67GTA]

@67GTA I sent you a PM if you're interested in getting that out of your parts bin, I'd take it. Otherwise, I think I figure out a 12AN set up on my own, rather than buy the Mishi kit new. Just let me know if you still have it and that's interesting to you.
Thx!!!

Thank you for the bump - completely overlooked responding last week. I still have it and will respond to your DM.

 

[JrFish]

Ok, so here’s the current plan and the current questions…subject to change at ANY moment.

I’m going to throw in @67GTA ‘s used Mishmoto kit, will put some new fittings on it and add the Mishi inline filter.
Logic (or lack thereof) was: I haven’t had real gauges on it so don’t even know what my baseline temps are yet; this will be a good start and was cheap enough that it doesn’t matter if I keep it; I want to put in a 948 type cooler w/12AN lines, but it appears to me that my only thermostat option if I do that would be an in-line and require a filter relo.; all that is probably overkill for my current setup and I will do that later along with other oiling upgrades like a baffled pan and the high volume oil pump.

I am going to work on making the ducting work and hopefully I can make it look as clean as @Scootsmcgreggor , however, I doubt it.

So…now it’s back to the coolant questions.
I am concerned that this Kenny Brown 3x pass will put system pressures beyond what it can handle as a dual purpose car. Has anyone felt the need to put a PSI gauge on the system or been concerned about how many PSI the stock system can handle?

I’ve got all new hoses. I bought an aluminum overflow tank, but I’ve been undecided on whether I will put that in at this time. Has anyone thought about, or done, an upgraded overflow kit like this one with a higher bar traditional radiator cap?
Coolant Tank Kit, Ford Mustang and Shelby GT500 (radiumauto.com)
And, to compound the issue/question, I ordered the GT500 water pump. (PN M-8501-M52A) But they’re backordered to God knows when and I suspect I’ll put it all back together before I get it. Would sure be easy to do it now. But that claimed “30% increased flow” would raise the system even pressure even more. Think that plastic stock reservoir and cap will handle it?

TIA for any inputs and experiences!

 

[67GTA]

Ok, so here’s the current plan and the current questions…subject to change at ANY moment.

I’m going to throw in @67GTA ‘s used Mishmoto kit, will put some new fittings on it and add the Mishi inline filter.
Logic (or lack thereof) was: I haven’t had real gauges on it so don’t even know what my baseline temps are yet; this will be a good start and was cheap enough that it doesn’t matter if I keep it; I want to put in a 948 type cooler w/12AN lines, but it appears to me that my only thermostat option if I do that would be in in-line and require a filter relo.; all that is probably overkill for my current setup and I will do that later along with other oiling upgrades like a baffled pan and higher volume oil pump.

I am going to work on making the ducting work and hopefully I can make it look as clean as @Scootsmcgreggor , however, I doubt it.

So…now it’s back to the coolant questions.
I am concerned that this Kenny Brown 3x pass will put system pressures beyond what it can handle as a dual purpose car. Has anyone felt the need to put a PSI gauge on the system or been concerned about how many PSI the stock system can handle?

I’ve got all new hoses. I bought an aluminum overflow tank, but I’ve been undecided on whether I will put it in at this time. Has anyone thought about, or done, and upgraded overflow kit like this one with a higher bar traditional radiator cap?
Coolant Tank Kit, Ford Mustang and Shelby GT500 (radiumauto.com)
And, to compound the question, I ordered the GT500 water pump. (PN M-8501-M52A) But they’re backordered to God knows when and I suspect I’ll put it all back together before I get it. Would sure be easy to do it now. But that claimed “30% increased flow” would raise the system even pressure even more. Think that plastic stock reservoir and cap will handle it?

TIA for any inputs and experiences!

I just switched over to that exact Radium overflow tank you linked above, mainly for the 1.5 bar radiator cap. Coupled with the Fluidyne 3 pass and the GT500 pump, I didn’t see water temps above 200 all weekend (measured in the freeze plug port right behind the alternator).

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I just switched over to that exact Radium overflow tank you linked above, mainly for the 1.5 bar radiator cap. Coupled with the Fluidyne 3 pass and the GT500 pump, I didn’t see water temps above 200 all weekend (measured in the freeze plug port right behind the alternator).

Interesting. I did buttonwillow last weekend 90* ambient and saw 230cht (not sure how this translates to water temp?) with 250* oil temps. stock water pump with KB/Fluidyne triple pass, 75% water, GT500 oil system with 948 cooler and ducting pictured above. That was at prob 9/10 pace.

 

[67GTA]

Interesting. I did buttonwillow last weekend 90* ambient and saw 230cht (not sure how this translates to water temp?) with 250* oil temps. stock water pump with KB/Fluidyne triple pass, 75% water, GT500 oil system with 948 cooler and ducting pictured above. That was at prob 9/10 pace.

Ambients weren’t that high at ACS - low to mid 80’s on Saturday and cooler on Sunday. I was very pleased with oil temps as well - peaked at 225, measured in the oil pan. Curious to see what the warmer months will bring.