What a few of us are trying to determine is if the R has any additional suspension tuning that the track pack doesn't. In the attached sales information it states the R has "unique suspension tuning". Ok what's unique about it? Is it just the tuning in the MR suspension or are bushings and other suspension pieces different? I suspect there are differences to take advantage of the stickier tires and wider wheels but can't seem to confirm that anywhere. If anyone has any definitive information and documentation please post it.

Please keep information from by brother's uncle's friend's twin sister on the other forums.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

When the Boss 302 was announced Ford used the same language for the LS model.code 501A. This turned out to be different spring rates, better shock and strut valve rates and different sway bars. This resulted in 1.0 second faster laps at LS.

I suspect the differences will be similar and perhaps even more substantial than the 501A v the 500A Boss models.

It will be interesting to find out the actual differences.

Dave
302 HP

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

If it's just different spring rates and sway bars…save the money and get the standard gt350 with the track pack. Most of you will end up changing that stuff out in the future anyways. The carbon fiber wheels are cool but too expensive to be a track wheel IMO. With the frequent tire changes I don't really see those things standing up to the beating tire mounting/dismounting machines have put on my aluminum Enkeis.

If the brakes are the same and all the cooling additions are the same i.e. oil, trans, brake, and diff cooler; seems what you are paying for with the "R" are some carbon fiber wheels and aero pieces. Those expensive tires won't last long and will be the main reason the "R" is faster than the standard 350. The main reason the LS was faster was the tires, not the spring rates and sway bars.

That's my take on it with the current info we have

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Flyboygsxr said:

Those expensive tires won't last long and will be the main reason the "R" is faster than the standard 350. The main reason the LS was faster was the tires, not the spring rates and sway bars.

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I suspect that will be the case this time around as well. I just hope the R is a bigger difference than the LS was.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

I think a key difference to consider is how much of the 'tuning' is mechanical versus software. My sense is that a lot of the difference on the boss base vs LS was mechanical and, hence, easy to work around / improve. My read of the info on the gt350 / r is that there will be a lot of 'calibration' (aka software) differences. That makes sense when you watch the videos on the magnaride and realize that they're doing a lot of suspension tuning with the dynamic shocks where it would have had to have been done with other mechanical components.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Motortrend issue on May 5th-chassis first look:
"It should also be noted that most of the suspension calibrations, bushing durometers, and so forth are slightly stiffer still on GT350R models, which will also likely ride slightly lower than the GT350, which also rides lower than the GT Perf Pack. The MR shocks are also unique, with the internal piston orifices smaller on the R."

I also recall from the ford video on suspension and brakes, that the software tuning needed to be changed on the shocks during track testing due to the lighter wheels and their associated frequency harmonics.


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Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Moto said:

Motortrend issue on May 5th-chassis first look:
"It should also be noted that most of the suspension calibrations, bushing durometers, and so forth are slightly stiffer still on GT350R models, which will also likely ride slightly lower than the GT350, which also rides lower than the GT Perf Pack. The MR shocks are also unique, with the internal piston orifices smaller on the R."

I also recall from the ford video on suspension and brakes, that the software tuning needed to be changed on the shocks during track testing due to the lighter wheels and their associated frequency harmonics.


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Click to expand...

So the real interesting question becomes what happens to that tuning when we all throw wider stickier tires on either car just like Adam said. You know we will for better grip, cheaper takeoff options and the impracticality of running multiple sets of very $$$ CF wheels. As was stated the majority of the difference in lap times with the LS were the R-comp tires. I have driven both B2 cars on track and the LS suspension and chassis had a slightly more rigid feel, but my regular B2 with wider stickier tires was still faster around the track than the LS with PZero Corsas.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

I also saw a video from Ford saying they had to have different suspension considerations for the CF wheels due to the light weight. So if you get the R and move to non CF wheels, wouldn't that have a negative impact vs a 350 with more traditional wheels?

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

From what I have been able to gather/read about the GT350; it's not really an apples to apples comparison (LS to standard Boss). The key thing to understand with this new model and suspension tuning can be summed up in one word, Algorithms. The different tires and wheels between the R and the Track pack will have significant differences in order to bring out the best in both applications. The boss tuning elements (read shocks, bushings, springs) were almost entirely mechanical. This car is a different animal. For me, I would be looking to get an R to have the most dynamic capability from right off the showroom floor. If my goal was to mod the suspension/wheel set up for track days, I would start with the most basic set up since more than likely all of the stock stuff would be thrown out within the first couple of years of ownership. I really like the idea of all of the cooling that comes with the track pack; it would be challenging beat the bang for the buck in that department.

Just my &.02

BT

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

^Those are a lot of the reasons why I'm considering an R.

Now if only Ford would include a 'track mode' option for traction control...and had user selectable oversteer/understeer bias. It's amazing what can be programmed with double or triple taps of a button!

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

BigTaco said:

From what I have been able to gather/read about the GT350; it's not really an apples to apples comparison (LS to standard Boss). The key thing to understand with this new model and suspension tuning can be summed up in one word, Algorithms. The different tires and wheels between the R and the Track pack will have significant differences in order to bring out the best in both applications. The boss tuning elements (read shocks, bushings, springs) were almost entirely mechanical. This car is a different animal. For me, I would be looking to get an R to have the most dynamic capability from right off the showroom floor. If my goal was to mod the suspension/wheel set up for track days, I would start with the most basic set up since more than likely all of the stock stuff would be thrown out within the first couple of years of ownership. I really like the idea of all of the cooling that comes with the track pack; it would be challenging beat the bang for the buck in that department.

Just my &.02

BT

Click to expand...

You and i are making the same point...so I agree that it's an interesting question to ask / answer.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Moto said:

Motortrend issue on May 5th-chassis first look:
"It should also be noted that most of the suspension calibrations, bushing durometers, and so forth are slightly stiffer still on GT350R models, which will also likely ride slightly lower than the GT350, which also rides lower than the GT Perf Pack. The MR shocks are also unique, with the internal piston orifices smaller on the R."

I also recall from the ford video on suspension and brakes, that the software tuning needed to be changed on the shocks during track testing due to the lighter wheels and their associated frequency harmonics.


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Click to expand...

Curious to hear your impressions of the Magneride on the C7s we drove at Spring Mountain.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

The following is from the Ford press release regarding the GT350R ( reply 56 in the GT350R thread on this site).

"The car features the first-ever production V8 from Ford with a flat-plane crankshaft – the most powerful naturally aspirated engine Ford has ever produced – plus a specially tuned suspension. It is fitted with revised spring rates and antiroll bars, lower ride height, unique track-tuned alignment settings, revised bushings and jounce bumpers, cross-axis ball joints in the front suspension, and revised calibration controlling the MagneRide dampers."

It is not completely clear if those suspension differences are unique to the R. However, since the aerodynamics write up is carefully worded to distinguish between the items shared with the base 350, and those not (the wing and splitter), I suspect that all the suspension items listed are unique to R.

By the way, anyone know what a cross-axis ball joint is and what is the benefit?

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

YellowJacketBoss302 said:

The following is from the Ford press release regarding the GT350R ( reply 56 in the GT350R thread on this site).

"The car features the first-ever production V8 from Ford with a flat-plane crankshaft – the most powerful naturally aspirated engine Ford has ever produced – plus a specially tuned suspension. It is fitted with revised spring rates and antiroll bars, lower ride height, unique track-tuned alignment settings, revised bushings and jounce bumpers, cross-axis ball joints in the front suspension, and revised calibration controlling the MagneRide dampers."

It is not completely clear if those suspension differences are unique to the R. However, since the aerodynamics write up is carefully worded to distinguish between the items shared with the base 350, and those not (the wing and splitter), I suspect that all the suspension items listed are unique to R.

Click to expand...

One C&D blog mentioned that the R gets the new Gen 3 MagneRide...not sure if that means the track pack gets it too.

By the way, anyone know what a cross-axis ball joint is and what is the benefit?

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Unlike everybody excited about the IRS, *this* is the bit that makes me want to get a '15. And it's even better for the GT350s since the geometry is revised further for the wider wheels.

The benefit is that a virtual axis point can be located where you could not physically place a single ball joint in a typical mac strut suspension. Like inside or outboard of the brake rotor.

What this gets us is increased camber gain, which will greatly increase front end grip. It should also improve tire wear overall and especially at the outer edge.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Grant 302 said:

One C&D blog mentioned that the R gets the new Gen 3 MagneRide...not sure if that means the track pack gets it too.

Unlike everybody excited about the IRS, *this* is the bit that makes me want to get a '15. And it's even better for the GT350s since the geometry is revised further for the wider wheels.

The benefit is that a virtual axis point can be located where you could not physically place a single ball joint in a typical mac strut suspension. Like inside or outboard of the brake rotor.

What this gets us is increased camber gain, which will greatly increase front end grip. It should also improve tire wear overall and especially at the outer edge.

Click to expand...

the 'Gen3' thing was on my mind too...I thought I'd heard that somewhere as being a distinguishing factor for the r.

The virtual axis idea is being heavily used in mountain bike suspension design as well. there's body of patents written in the 90's that describe a 'VPP' or Virtual Pivot Point for the rear suspension that is derived from two arcing physical pivot locations. That's the suspension design used on most Santa Cruz and Intense bikes...a similar idea was developed by Dave Weagle called the DW link. Both systems allow the frame designer to dial in the desired amount of 'anti-squat' in the suspension (the force that is counter-acting against pedaling force).

My sense is that it's going to be really hard to incrementally improve the suspension on these cars in the aftermarket. It's part of the reason I'm looking to get the R.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

R has bar rate in the rear.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Page 3 of the order guide has a good description of R spec equipment.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/2016%20GT350%20&%20GT350R%20Order%20Guide.pdf

Dave
2HP

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

Yes but it's not real specific on differences in the suspension.

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

NFSBOSS said:

Yes but it's not real specific on differences in the suspension.

Click to expand...

OIC, Specifically in regard to the "Unique Tuning" statement.
Thanks,
Dave

Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

twistedneck said:

R has bar rate in the rear.

Click to expand...

So what does this mean?

I'm pulling out all the stops trying to determine what's different but I'm coming up blank. I know a few of you are looking for this info in order to determine if you should order the R or not, which could mean waiting a long time to get one, so if anyone has any info please share.