The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

S197 2011 Mustang 3.7 Performance Package, Shooting my shot at CAM-C Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Looks like some nice runs. Did you feel there was more grip on the concrete section? On the Day 1 vid, you get loose after going back onto the asphalt, like you had gotten used to the concrete gip level and didn't recalibrate when you left it.

When I walk a course, I'll scuff my sneakers across anything that looks like a change in surface to see if I can feel a change in grip. That sometimes gives me a clue I can use on the first run.
Seneca Falls army depot is definitely unique with the concrete and asphalt sections. You 100% have to account for surface when figuring out your line/plan.

unfortunately the mistake you saw in the video (albeit a large one lol) was the result of me getting greedy and forgetting the plan based on the surface. We had drying conditions in the morning on day 1, by the time I got to the 3rd run I was pushing the envelope to see where I could find time. With the increased grip from the drying course, especially the concrete section, I overestimated how much traction the car had heading onto the asphalt… things got loose real quick

luckily I saved it and kept pushing for the rest of the run, resulting in my fastest time of the day. But hindsight being what it is, I can help but wonder how my overall pax would’ve shifted with a faster run on day 1

there’s always next year! Lol
 
Mid summer update:

After taking the past 4 weeks off from racing, it's time to gear up for a PACKED August schedule. Over the past month, I haven't touched the car as my wife and I were on a cross country honeymoon trip. 15 days, 7000 miles, 17 states. It was incredible to see a little more of this great country!

Back to the slow pony...

We are still having brakes issues with this car, and it does not inspire confidence. Problem #1 is that the cheap power stop track day pads have worn the Raybestos R300 rotors in a really weird way (see below). This pads EAT rotors fairly quickly and have NASTY dust (I use them as a combo commuter/autocross pad)
IMG_0681.jpeg
Problem #2 is that the car still will overheat the brakes under very specific conditions. When we run with small local clubs and co-drive the car within the same heat, the car will eventually get a soft pedal. The last time this happened was at a NYRSCCA event with a fast 60+mph finish (solostorm data showed the car was trapping ~65mph) into a hard brake zone/short run off before pulling right back into the grid spot. Obviously this was less than ideal and provided no time to get any air flow through the brakes. After 12 consecutive hot laps on the 50+ second course, the pedal went soft and I called it a day (we had already won CAM anyway lol)

Yesterday pulled the front brakes apart and upgraded the pads and rotors. Out when the raybestos R300/Powerstop track day combo and in it's place went Gloc R6 pads with Raybestos high carbon rotors. While I was in there I finally made the jump from Motul RBF600 to Castrol SRF, it's expensive but I'm tired of fluid woes. Lastly I threw a set of caliper temp strips on the front brembos to get some better data
IMG_0679.jpegIMG_0680.jpeg

Initial street impressions of the new Glow R6 from OP Mustang are awesome. The initial bite is INCREDIBLE. I'm shooting for 6 autocross events in August, will let y'all know hot they hold up

The official slow pony brake package now consists of the following if anyone is looking to replicate for autocross/street use:

-Boss 302 Brembos calipers ($400 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-Raybestos High carbon Rotors (PN 680497 $97 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-GLOC R6 pads ($191 @ OP Mustang)
-OP mustang Titanium shims ($80 @ OP Mustang)
-Castrol SRF
-Boss 302 Reinforced rubber lines ($100 @ American Muscle)
-Porsche 964 air deflectors on the front control arms ($60 @ Pelican Porsche)
-Removed fog lights/trimmed fender liners to create a path for airflow to the inner fenders/air deflectors

Gotta love a parts bin special!

More updates coming soon,
-J
 
Man, your brake issues are so weird. Autocross isn't that hard on brakes (usually). Of course, I had low pedal/shitty brake issues for several years and only fixed it with Wilwood 6 pot on the front and replacing calipers and brackets on the rear. I suspect the rears were really my problem, but firing the parts cannon fixed it.

Are you going to be able to make the CAM challenge in Peru?

DaveW
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
1,000
1,302
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
That rotor wear looks like it could be a runout/wobble issue. You might want to check the new rotors - with the wheel off, clamp the rotor down with the lug nuts (and washers if needed), then spin the rotor around and see if it wobbles in relation to the caliper. Ideally you'd use a dial indicator, but you might be able to feel an issue with your finger. If you have a wobble, pull the rotor and check the hub face is clean and the rotor seats evenly.
 
Man, your brake issues are so weird. Autocross isn't that hard on brakes (usually). Of course, I had low pedal/shitty brake issues for several years and only fixed it with Wilwood 6 pot on the front and replacing calipers and brackets on the rear. I suspect the rears were really my problem, but firing the parts cannon fixed it.

Are you going to be able to make the CAM challenge in Peru?

DaveW
I’ve been up in air about the CAM challenge, it’s been a goal of mine since starting this build. As of right now, it’s not looking great. If anything it will be a last minute sign up/road trip
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,488
8,481
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Going to the bigger SCCA Solo Events ( National Tours ) are great places to have fun and ask others the big questions. I have learned more about quality mods and things that don't really work by going to bigger Autocross Events over the years and it sounds like Dave_W will be there, so there is another brain you can pick! Good luck in your quest................
 
Spent some time this week getting the car prepared for Sunday's event with NNJR and the car is just about ready to go (need to swap the 315s over tmw). Aside from the brake changes, we'll also be testing out some rear aero on the car to see if we can take things up a level.

As with everything on this car, the rear aero was done on a budget with some backyard engineering. Keep in mind this I just phase 1 and it will continue to change/evolve over time. The goal for adding a rear spoiler was to increase rear grip, especially on higher speed sectors, while also allowing us to dial in more rotation for low speed corners. ***Disclaimer, I've never had a car with aero nor built any aero parts so this is purely experimental lol

What we used:
Junkyard trunk lid ($100)
Late model lexan spoiler kit from Pitstop USA (6.5 inch x 60 70 degree rake) Spoiler kit
Spoiler plugs and weatherstripping from Amazon
Hardware kit from Allstar performance
Steel flat bar for brackets
Good ol' rustoleum rattle cans

It's far from a maximized aero setup for CAM class (10 inch spoiler allowance)and it sure isn't pretty, but it also cost less than half of what Joefis Racing wanted to build a legit rear spoiler setup for the car

Since putting installing the spoiler, I've run it up over autocross speeds (you know.. down in Mexico of course) and there was no fluttering/flapping out back. Looking forward to seeing if this will make a tangible difference this weekend, hopefully solo storm can give us some relevant data to compare to previous events to see if there is any quantitative benefit

Will be back soon with updates
-J



Screen Shot 2022-08-05 at 4.53.31 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-05 at 4.58.50 PM.png
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,488
8,481
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Heh, it looks pretty darn good in my estimation, and 100% better than many I have seen. Plus that blacked out back and trunk lid just add to the intimidation factor of the your clear spoiler. I would say you are exhibiting the true spirit of the CAM Class and I see seconds falling off your times!
 
Last edited:
97
111
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Southern Illinois
Mid summer update:

After taking the past 4 weeks off from racing, it's time to gear up for a PACKED August schedule. Over the past month, I haven't touched the car as my wife and I were on a cross country honeymoon trip. 15 days, 7000 miles, 17 states. It was incredible to see a little more of this great country!

Back to the slow pony...

We are still having brakes issues with this car, and it does not inspire confidence. Problem #1 is that the cheap power stop track day pads have worn the Raybestos R300 rotors in a really weird way (see below). This pads EAT rotors fairly quickly and have NASTY dust (I use them as a combo commuter/autocross pad)
View attachment 77828
Problem #2 is that the car still will overheat the brakes under very specific conditions. When we run with small local clubs and co-drive the car within the same heat, the car will eventually get a soft pedal. The last time this happened was at a NYRSCCA event with a fast 60+mph finish (solostorm data showed the car was trapping ~65mph) into a hard brake zone/short run off before pulling right back into the grid spot. Obviously this was less than ideal and provided no time to get any air flow through the brakes. After 12 consecutive hot laps on the 50+ second course, the pedal went soft and I called it a day (we had already won CAM anyway lol)

Yesterday pulled the front brakes apart and upgraded the pads and rotors. Out when the raybestos R300/Powerstop track day combo and in it's place went Gloc R6 pads with Raybestos high carbon rotors. While I was in there I finally made the jump from Motul RBF600 to Castrol SRF, it's expensive but I'm tired of fluid woes. Lastly I threw a set of caliper temp strips on the front brembos to get some better data
View attachment 77829View attachment 77830

Initial street impressions of the new Glow R6 from OP Mustang are awesome. The initial bite is INCREDIBLE. I'm shooting for 6 autocross events in August, will let y'all know hot they hold up

The official slow pony brake package now consists of the following if anyone is looking to replicate for autocross/street use:

-Boss 302 Brembos calipers ($400 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-Raybestos High carbon Rotors (PN 680497 $97 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-GLOC R6 pads ($191 @ OP Mustang)
-OP mustang Titanium shims ($80 @ OP Mustang)
-Castrol SRF
-Boss 302 Reinforced rubber lines ($100 @ American Muscle)
-Porsche 964 air deflectors on the front control arms ($60 @ Pelican Porsche)
-Removed fog lights/trimmed fender liners to create a path for airflow to the inner fenders/air deflectors

Gotta love a parts bin special!

More updates coming soon,
-J
Late to the party. Pros and Cons of using a 2.5" spring setup on the Koni struts? I just installed Vorshlag StreetPro Bilsteins in March. Stock spring is limiting my camber.
 
Late to the party. Pros and Cons of using a 2.5" spring setup on the Koni struts? I just installed Vorshlag StreetPro Bilsteins in March. Stock spring is limiting my camber.
To catch you up and give you some context:

I already had the Konis from my failed experiment to run the V6PP in SCCA's D Street class. Given that this car is built on a budget, it made sense to reuse the Konis and repackage them with higher rate springs for the CAM build. Also Koni has their million mile warranty which is useful on a car that sees daily use on NYC roads (I've blown a handful of Konis over the years on Civics, CRX's, Subaru etc and Koni stands by their product).

I chose to go the route less travelled using the GC coiler sleeves/Camber plates instead of off the shelf lowering springs for a few reasons:

1) I could pick my own spring rate/easily play with different rates

2) I could pick my ride height. This was important for me because of the shiznit roads up in the northeast AND I wanted to keep the geometry close to stock (I am not an engineer so I keep it close to how Ford designed it, avoiding bumpsteer issues and subsequently the parts to correct it)

3)I have an early 2011 S197 which are known for throwing "nibbles" through the EPAS system when lowered too much (I have no plans to spend $1100 to replace the steering rack with a Boss 302r rack)

3) I could get more camber due to the smaller spring package while running "street" camber plates. (from past experience, I don't like running open bearing camber plates on street cars that see salt)

The only cons that I can think of with this setup is that it took some trial and error to get everything setup exactly how I wanted up front. Since my initial consultation and order with GC I've changed the front spring length/rate, added RE suspension helper spring collars+Hyperco helper springs, cut the strut top openings with the Vorschlag jig and slotted the lower strut bolt holes to get the magic -3 degrees we all want.

It's not a perfect setup and its not for everyone, but it works for me. There are plenty of other tried and true setups for these cars out there, it all depends what your intended use is as well as your budget.

If you want any more info on my setup, feel free to shoot me a message and I'll go into more detail.

Best,
-J
 
On your brakes, (and I probably mentioned this already) but you are 100% sure that your rear calipers are good, and more importantly, the brackets are not bent and the pads move easily on the bracket?


As mentioned above I chased crap brake and pedal for a long time on my car and it ended up being the rear brackets not letting the pads move properly.

Even when I got a good pedal, the car had shitty braking power, but I didn't really notice it and kind of compensated by braking early, etc. And they tended to get hotter than I would expect.

The reason I mention it again is that I just chased the exact same problem on a customers DD Honda CRV. Rear pads were hanging up in the brackets that were apparently tweaked. The actual symptom was a low brake pedal in this case, but even after I bled it like crazy and the pedal felt ok in the shop, it just had no braking power and I could get the front brakes smoking in one 1/2 mile trip around our industrial park. The pedal was decent, but there was just no braking power. It was hard to quantify how ba it was before until I fixed it.

DaveW
 
On your brakes, (and I probably mentioned this already) but you are 100% sure that your rear calipers are good, and more importantly, the brackets are not bent and the pads move easily on the bracket?


As mentioned above I chased crap brake and pedal for a long time on my car and it ended up being the rear brackets not letting the pads move properly.

Even when I got a good pedal, the car had shitty braking power, but I didn't really notice it and kind of compensated by braking early, etc. And they tended to get hotter than I would expect.

The reason I mention it again is that I just chased the exact same problem on a customers DD Honda CRV. Rear pads were hanging up in the brackets that were apparently tweaked. The actual symptom was a low brake pedal in this case, but even after I bled it like crazy and the pedal felt ok in the shop, it just had no braking power and I could get the front brakes smoking in one 1/2 mile trip around our industrial park. The pedal was decent, but there was just no braking power. It was hard to quantify how ba it was before until I fixed it.

DaveW

Very interesting to see that issue come up on a regular daily driver. I think you might be right that rear calipers were contributing to the original brake issues we had with the car over the first two years of auto crossing it. This year following the incident and subsequent replacement rear end build/install, I bit the bullet and put two new calipers out back.

I will say following this weekend's event, I think this season's issue was purely fluid and pad related. With the Castrol SRF and GLOC R6 pads up front, there was not a hint of fade or soft pedal. We did 14 hot laps (2 driver car) on a 55+ second course in 95+ degree heat without a single issue. The initial bite on the R6 pads recommended by @OPMustang Tim are no joke!!!!
 
Post NNJR update:

Got to put the new rear spoiler & front brake setup to the test this past weekend on 315 Falkens (did not have time to install Eibach front bar due to parts delay from Tasca), overall the results were pretty impressive in my opinion

Took first in CAM by about half a second, and 26 PAX out of 81 entries (including 13 Pros). Car felt very good especially in the transitions and slalom. The car had great turn-in on the sweepers but I felt some "push" mid corner and on exit. I tried to take out some front rebound and increase the rear somewhat (ran single adjustable Konis on both ends at this event), but ultimately did not have enough time between runs to really play with the setup

Have two local events this weekend that I'd like to use as a test n tune on the 285 Falkens and see if I can get the setup a little more dialed in before making any hardware changes

Action Shot:
Screen Shot 2022-08-08 at 8.28.18 PM.png

Go Pro Clips with Solostorm Data overlays:
Dad's Best Run 57.4xx
Jon's Best Run 55.9xx

As always would love to driver/setup feedback from the TMO communty

Should have some additional updates for y'all next week

-J
 
End of August Update:

Was able only able 4 events in within the last few weeks, 2 local events at the Coliseum and 2 events over at NNJR. So far I'm pretty happy with the car, but there is always room for improvement.

The good:
-The car has been pretty fast, finally broke into the top 20 PAX at NNJR! (not an easy feat with the regular pro class population)
-The spoiler works, I've been able to increase the rear rebound immensely to get the low speed rotation I want while keeping the car tame at higher speeds (Can't wait to get the double adjustable back from Vi-king and dial them in)
- the 315 Falken's have held up well with over 120+ runs

The Bad:
-Had a FRPP front hub go bad with less than 10k miles (possible contribution to the front brake issue, nice catch @Dave_W )
-Corded one of the 285/30/18 falkens I use for local events/summer dailies, luckily have a spare leftover from last year to get by temporarily. Need to reassess the tire situation
-Car needs on big lot power courses, it really is a momentum car more than anything else

Run videos from the last NNJR event below, was a big open power course so we knew it would be an uphill battle against the V8's. Came out quick and jumped to an early lead which I was able to hold for 5 runs, but struggled to find time on late runs netting a 3rd place finish. Great battle with some good competition, literally one tenth separating the top 3 cars in class. Looking back at the data, I really think I blew the last sweeper which led to a slow finish (these 3.7's don't make much power or tq at low rpms lol).

Dad's Fastest (although he obliterated a cone on this run)


Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 12.05.32 PM.png

My Fastest


Comparing Dad's run and mine, I think he needs to focus on throttle maintenance as opposed to being more aggressive with the throttle. We set up the throttle channel on the solo storm/racecapture and will continue to compare data at the next few events.

September looks pretty decent with 3-4 possible events on schedule. Anyone from TMO running the 2 day event at Pocono with NEPA SCCA on 9/17-9/18?

Slowly amassing some new bits for the off-season, will see where we can take the car in 2023

-J
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
1,000
1,302
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
Congratulations, 3rd is very good considering the big guns that show up at NNJR. Both runs look good. There are a couple places later in the run where it looks like your dad may be flicking the wheel in fast transitions where you are a bit smoother with the inputs. Smooth is fast. If you crank the wheel too fast, you end up "scuffing" the contact patch of the tire across the ground as the wheel pivots, which leads to push. I wonder if your dad thinks the car has a bit more understeer than you think it has, especially on turn-in and fast transitions. It's not a big difference between the two videos, though, so I may be over-analyzing. Just drive it and have fun!
 
Off-season update: November Edition

The 2022 autocross season has came and went, and the mustang is now officially in winter daily mode. That means snow tires, stock rear shocks, pedestrian ceramic brake pads, no more rear wing, and a boring 87 octane tune 😑.

Reflecting this season, I have to say I'm proud of how far we've come. We rebuilt the car after an unfortunate end to the 2021 season, shook it down, tried out a few new mods, hit a couple national tour events, and somehow won the Finger Lake Champ Tour. We never made it to Solo Nats or the CAM challenge, but there is always next year...

That being said, we've got some plans to make the car even more competitive for 2023. Would love to get some feedback and suggestions from the TMO brain trust as we continue to develop the car and prove the viability of the slow pony

As the season progressed, it became evident we need to make a few more suspension adjustments to get the car setup for the Eaton rear end:

1) We need more front grip. The car is sitting with -2.9 degrees of camber, I want to try -3.2 and will slot the struts until I get there. Will continue running the 400lb front springs/Konis as I like the balance of this package for a street car

2) I'd like some more rotation from the rear end. We ran most of the season on Koni Yellows with Factory Boss 302 springs. As much as I liked this setup with the trac-lok rear, it was never consistently fast with the Eaton diff. I'll be reinstalling the freshened up Vi-King double adjustable shocks and playing with rebound/compression settings in the spring

3) In addition, I planning to finally install the Ground Control weight jackers/divorced coil-overs I've had on the shelf for 2 years. I want to try to lower the rear about a half inch to take some rake out of the car and try a heavier spring rate. Thinking 200lbs similar to the cortex setup (IIRC 400F/200R for the "street" setup), but considering 225lbs (also trying to preserve some ride quality). I like the 20mm rear bar so that'll stay for now

4) Might spring for a full corner balance this year to really try and get the car as dialed in as possible


Another issue that is becoming more and more apparent is the power differential between our essentially stock 3.7 and the big v8 cars. This is really on a big factor on extremely long courses like Pocono infield. The way I see it, there are 2 ways to remedy this: A) add more power or B) lose some weight. So we'll be doing both lol. I figure the car has maybe 260whp as it sits with 93 race tune and weighed in at 3457lbs last time I had it on the SCCA scales

Part 1 Power MODS:

1) I picked up a used set of BBK shorty headers locally for $175, and already installed them over a weekend. I know these offer minimal top end gains, but they do improve low-mid range torque (which is something we don't have with 227 cubic inches). Based solely on the seat of the pants, the torque is noticeable on the street, I'm hoping this will help with acceleration out of tighter corners on course

2) Considering the cost vs benefit ratio of having the 2 piece plastic intake manifolds ported. I've spoken to a few places, but $450-600 for a a few hp doesn't really fit the theme of this build. TBD

3) Retune. I love the basemap Ortiz Performance put together for the car, but I actually need to datalog it and get some revisions done to maximize the setup/changes. Might push the redline up past 7500rpm to get a few more MPH in 2nd gear

With a healthy motor and the right mods, these little 3.7's can make 300whp on 93 octane. I don't think my setup will be that strong, but any HP improvement has to help close the gap. Trying to avoid the expense of setting the car up E85 for the time being

Part 2 Weight Reduction Plan, looking to pull 75-100lbs out of the car:

- shorty headers saved -3lbs over the cast iron manifolds

- removed front strut bar -7lbs

- Picked up a set of Flowtech Axlebacks at the Holley garage sale, a steal at $180! The pair weigh 16lbs in total. I've read that the GT500 mufflers currently on the car are ~46lbs. So there's at least -25lbs

-Actually clean out the interior at events (remove F/R floor mats, take out SCT tuner from console, empty glovebox, etc) Has to be good for -5lbs

-Looking at a Deka or Odyssey lightweight battery to run only at National Tour events. Should be good for -15lbs

- Considering switching from a 315 Falken RT660 to a 295 Bridgeston RE71RS which says a 4lb difference per corner. So potentially 16lbs of unsprung weight savings

That alone should get the car below 3400lbs without sacrificing any streetability. Will continue to look for other options to add lightness without spending a ton of money


There's a lot to do and never enough time, but I'll keep amassing parts until spring arrives. In the meanwhile I'm going to attempt building a PC/SIM racing rig to keep sharp in the offseason.

-J
 
IMO, (ignoring the street ride issue, which is shocks as much as anything) keep throwing rear spring at it until it rotates like you want.
I realize it's not the same thing, but with my stock Coyote motor, I feel down on power against even the 2015+ cars and certainly the ZL1 Camaros running at the top. I certainly am down when I run non SCCA and get grouped with cars like JJ's, etc.

Speaking in general terms, when my car is fast, it rotates easily so I can brake early, turn early and get back on the power as early as possible to maximize acceleration (and shorten distance). In reality, we all run about the same tire so we can kind of all put the same power down (setup dependent) so if your lower power and setup allows you to pick up the throttle sooner and more, its faster in the end.

I have set of 295 Bridgestones I am going to test/run at the Allies V Axis tour in December I will report back. A buddy put a set on his Cayman GT4 and they appear to be very good. We can't back to back with Yokohama on that car since Yoks are on perpetual backorder but I can on mine. Even on a 33 degree day, he embarrassed the rest of us pretty handily (he can drive too, its not all tires)

1668964006067.png

DaveW
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top