Angle kit to change steering ratio?

[Ilghar]

Since the S550 has EPSA, is an angle kit a good mod to change the steering ratio so less steering input is needed to turn the car?
I understand this can limit the wheel width that can be used.
Any thought?
what would be pros and cons?

 

[TMSBOSS]

An Angle Kit is something folks put on a car to drift. Not so much to increase the speed of angle change but to increase the actual angle the front wheels can move.
I added steering stops to my Boss to reduce the angle the front wheels can turn. This saves the brake ducts from excessive wear. I never hit the stops when driving on track and seldom on the street. A U-Turn is about the only time I even notice the stops on the street.
Would I consider this mod for my cars, nope. I don’t drift.

 

[mavisky]

It could achieve what you're after if you're having to deal with particularly tight corners on a specific track. My concern would be around what other geometry are you altering as well.

 

[xr7]

Another option would be a steering quickener. Speedway Motors sells them, 1.5 to 1 and 2 to 1 ratios. Would require a good bit of fabrication to install, also safety considerations, don't want to compromise collapsible steering column. Might get you closer to the go-kart feel.

 

[Dave_W]

If the problem you're trying to solve is that the minimum turning circle is to large, then increasing the maximum steering angle at the tire fixes that. It the problem is that you want to turn the steeing wheel less for a given tire angle, go with a steering quickener.

 

[Ilghar]

If the problem you're trying to solve is that the minimum turning circle is to large, then increasing the maximum steering angle at the tire fixes that. It the problem is that you want to turn the steeing wheel less for a given tire angle, go with a steering quickener.

my problem is having to do hand over hand while on the track, I don't want to to have to take my hands off the steering wheel, on reddit someone said that an angle kit would accomplish "turn the steering wheel less for a given tire angle" but here people say otherwise.

 

[xr7]

my problem is having to do hand over hand while on the track, I don't want to to have to take my hands off the steering wheel, on reddit someone said that an angle kit would accomplish "turn the steering wheel less for a given tire angle" but here people say otherwise.

You have to shorten the steering arm to quicken the steering but it probably will screw up other stuff or get a rack with a much faster ratio. I'd be temped to add a quickener if it can be done with out compromising the collapsible part of the steering column or cause problems for the air bag. Still a street car. I autocross a lot and quicker steering would be a plus. The one thing that may cause a problem is if turning the elec. rack too fast causes any problems. We had purchased 60 some IH trucks, used for plow trucks, steering seemed to bind up in emergency maneuvering training. Discovered the power steering pumps had insufficient flow, new pumps and no more steering issues.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I believe what folks here are saying is that the best way to achieve quicker steering , and NOT disturb steering geometry, is to install a steering quickened box. Moving the point of attachment for the tie rod end on the spindle will likely change geometry would likely want to leave alone.

Howe Racing 5225 Howe Steering Quickeners | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Howe Steering Quickeners with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Steering Quickeners at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

shortening the length of the

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Yes an angle kit would achieve what you want. Though as others have said the geometry for an angle kit is designed for drifting and not what you want for road course work. The geometries are very different not even close

 

[blacksheep-1]

I believe what folks here are saying is that the best way to achieve quicker steering , and NOT disturb steering geometry, is to install a steering quickened box. Moving the point of attachment for the tie rod end on the spindle will likely change geometry would likely want to leave alone.

Howe Racing 5225 Howe Steering Quickeners | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Howe Steering Quickeners with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Steering Quickeners at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

shortening the length of the

A word on thos eboxes, they made 2 of them, the manual version, which I thought might be a good idea until I tried it and you have to be King Kong to turn it, so light cars only on that one, and the power unit, which breeds it's own problems with plumbing, and etc, even if you use an electric box. The mods you refer to are mainly for drift guys, and they have insanely altered wheel angles in order to make all that work, If it were me, I would shop around and try to find a stock bolt in rack that had a quicker ratio, I'm sure something out there has that or you could try these guys..

https://www.flamingriver.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/F_126_Custom_Front_and_Rear_Steer_Power_Rack_and_Pinion.pdf

 

[TMSBOSS]

Another thought, not common but I have a few.

if you were to change the attaching point on the spindle, would this have a negative effect on the EPAS?

OP. What are you doing that needs the faster wheel turn speed?

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Another thought, not common but I have a few.

if you were to change the attaching point on the spindle, would this have a negative effect on the EPAS?

OP. What are you doing that needs the faster wheel turn speed?

no EPAS doesn’t even know/care. I have a drifting angle kit on my car now and the tie rod pickup point is much closer to hub centerline and no issues. Steering effort while rolling isn’t noticeably harder either.

 

[Mistaricky]

Not sure if this would help or what is changed. But the FP350S EPAS is available here:

FP350S EPAS STEERING RACK

FP350S EPAS STEERING RACK|Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

I would suspect there is some sort of faster steering ratio in it, but someone else would need to confirm for me.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

Not sure if this would help or what is changed. But the FP350S EPAS is available here:

FP350S EPAS STEERING RACK

FP350S EPAS STEERING RACK|Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

I would suspect there is some sort of faster steering ratio in it, but someone else would need to confirm for me.

I read somewhere that the GT350 steering ratio is a hair slower than the other S550s.
EDIT: Upon re-reading, it looks like all S550s come with the same steering ratio.
The GT350 or Mach 1 EPAS supposedly gives you better steering feel, which is a worthy goal as far as I'm concerned.

Another option would be a steering quickener. Speedway Motors sells them, 1.5 to 1 and 2 to 1 ratios. Would require a good bit of fabrication to install, also safety considerations, don't want to compromise collapsible steering column. Might get you closer to the go-kart feel.

I've also read that a steering quickener gearbox will ruin your steering feel - and likely add slack to the mechanism - because of the extra moving parts.


If someone made a steering rack with a quicker ratio, I'd want that. But I've looked and no one makes such a thing for the S550. Ford and the aftermarket must have decided that not enough of us want it.

 

[Dave_W]

my problem is having to do hand over hand while on the track, I don't want to to have to take my hands off the steering wheel

While a mechanical fix for that is possible, I think the optimal fix is to just learn "shuffle steering" and/or good hand-over-hand technique and apply it properly, starting from the 9 & 3 hand positions. Practice it, and get confident with it.

Focusing on autocross, I do shuffle steering all the time (on the street as well), and often "preset" a hand for a turn - if it's a RH turn, I'll move my right hand to 10-o'clock at corner entry and pull the wheel over while it slips through my left hand. If my right hand gets to 6-o'clock, my left hand meets it and takes over pushing the wheel up to noon, where it meets the right hand and they swap control again. Reverse the process to straighten the wheel. The wheel is always firmly gripped in one hand, and the other hand is loosely around the wheel and ready to grip it if needed. One trick that I try to do is have my hands end up around 9 & 3 at the apex, as that gives me the largest range of motion for any corrections I might need. For high-speed track driving, hand-over-hand may let you turn the wheel faster -- it's something you can work out for yourself -- but you can still try to end up around 9 & 3 at the apex.

Do not use The Death Grip - clamping down on the wheel numbs the nerve endings in your hand and reduces your ability to sense the feedback from the tires about the grip level. Similarly, your fingertips have many more nerve endings per square inch than your palms, so try grip the wheel more towards the fingertips. You might even try holding the wheel with just the fingertips in a situation that is safe to do so (no curb hopping, potholes, etc. that could jerk the wheel out of control without a firm grip). IIRC, there was a Wheeler Dealers episode where Ant was on track and he was driving around the high-speed sweepers with just his fingertips, saying he learned it through an emergency vehicle driving course in the U.K.

Lastly, remember that wheels follow the hands; hands follow the eyes. Always look where you want to go, and that's where your hands will naturally steer the car. If you get target fixation on the armco at corner exit, you're more likely to hit it.

 

[Ilghar]

While a mechanical fix for that is possible, I think the optimal fix is to just learn "shuffle steering" and/or good hand-over-hand technique and apply it properly, starting from the 9 & 3 hand positions. Practice it, and get confident with it.

Focusing on autocross, I do shuffle steering all the time (on the street as well), and often "preset" a hand for a turn - if it's a RH turn, I'll move my right hand to 10-o'clock at corner entry and pull the wheel over while it slips through my left hand. If my right hand gets to 6-o'clock, my left hand meets it and takes over pushing the wheel up to noon, where it meets the right hand and they swap control again. Reverse the process to straighten the wheel. The wheel is always firmly gripped in one hand, and the other hand is loosely around the wheel and ready to grip it if needed. One trick that I try to do is have my hands end up around 9 & 3 at the apex, as that gives me the largest range of motion for any corrections I might need. For high-speed track driving, hand-over-hand may let you turn the wheel faster -- it's something you can work out for yourself -- but you can still try to end up around 9 & 3 at the apex.

Do not use The Death Grip - clamping down on the wheel numbs the nerve endings in your hand and reduces your ability to sense the feedback from the tires about the grip level. Similarly, your fingertips have many more nerve endings per square inch than your palms, so try grip the wheel more towards the fingertips. You might even try holding the wheel with just the fingertips in a situation that is safe to do so (no curb hopping, potholes, etc. that could jerk the wheel out of control without a firm grip). IIRC, there was a Wheeler Dealers episode where Ant was on track and he was driving around the high-speed sweepers with just his fingertips, saying he learned it through an emergency vehicle driving course in the U.K.

Lastly, remember that wheels follow the hands; hands follow the eyes. Always look where you want to go, and that's where your hands will naturally steer the car. If you get target fixation on the armco at corner exit, you're more likely to hit it.

How much does toe help with this issue?

 

[DaveW]

How much does toe help with this issue?

What issue? Like was asked before, what are you doing that needs the increased wheel turn speed? Toe is a suspension adjustment to (maybe) tune the car. It is not without compromises.

DaveW

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

How much does toe help with this issue?

Probably none.
Toe-in makes the car more stable.
Toe-out makes the steering more responsive, but potentially twitchy at highway speed.
Neither changes the steering ratio. If you had to turn the wheel a lot to make a sharp turn, toe doesn't change that.