S197 BackInBlack Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

[steveespo]

Hmmm. I found a post here on TMO by @TMSBOSS where he talks about replacing a rod bearing in a Mustang GT. It was only one cylinder and there was no crank damage. Could it be possible I'm in the same boat? Since these cars have forged crankshafts, could I get by replacing just the bearing? It's worth looking into. I already know what cylinder it's gonna be. And my knock, if you can call it that is very faint so it sounds like my situation is better than the car he worked on...

If you are seeing cylinder scuffing and oil burning evidence I would think a faint knock is piston slap and not rod bearing. You can open the engine up and check the rod bearings by moving the big ends by hand to see the amount of clearance movement. Also evidence of metallic flakes in the pan would indicate a bearing failure. I would lean towards cylinder damage before rod bearing based on your posts. Either way it looks like it will need to be opened up to find out and repair. Good luck.

 

[BackInBlack]

Went back to my trusted usual mechanic, the guy I built the car with, and asked his opinion. He doesn't like the rod bearings idea. He didn't say exactly, but I think that he thinks there isn't enough noise to support that diagnosis. Based on how the car feels, he likes the flywheel option, and he feels confident enough about it to have a look. So -- we're dropping the trans.

I'm actually feeling a little good about this. Of the potential things it could be, this would be one of the least bad ones. Course, the flywheel could be imbalanced AND there's something else wrong too...

BnB goes back under the knife next week.

 

[BackInBlack]

Small note. When balancing a Centerforce clutch that has weights on it, the weights have to be removed in order to balance.

After everything is disassembled I plan to go in there and rev up the car to feel if the vibrations are gone with no transmission/clutch/flywheel in there. If so, then I can look forward to at least getting the car to run smoothly, and have a fair shot at solving the misfire issue. Will do another WOT pull after balancing to see if misfires remain. If it still misfires, then this will be all I can do in regards to this issue. If it runs well, I can move forward with the car.

Since my transmission, clutch, flywheel, throwout bearing, & pilot bearing are all new (installed last year), I'm thinking that I won't need to replace any of that -- although, some people say to replace the throwout bearing and the pilot bearing any time the clutch is removed. Anyone have opinions? I'm also seeing that some people purposefully remove the weights on these Centerforce clutches. I talked to Centerforce about this and other things, and they feel confident in their system, but said that if I want to remove the weights that the clutch would work fine without them. They said the weights increase clamping ability by about 10%. For now, I told my mechanic that I want everything reassembled as it was after the clutch is balanced. That is, unless we find some sort of damage or high wear. My current opinion of the clutch is that I'm happy with it and have had no clutch related issues. That could change once I get a look at it, and it is possible that the imbalance is due to a problem with the weights as well. If there is some sort of damage or high wear on the clutch, my backup plan is to go a step safer and replace it with an Exedy 500 (street clutch, organic). I have the feeling I won't need to though. I think it probably just needs to be balanced... I also thought about doing the current gen MGW shifter as a while we're in there, but after thinking about it, I have no shifting issues with my current setup. As far as shifting goes it works quite well -- so I think I'll leave it alone. I still have the Blowfish bracket I can put back in there later if I want to.

I'm currently waiting in line to get looked at, so in the meantime I'm driving a beater and thinking optimistically. Thinking of doing a spring upgrade. Don't want to go lower, so I was thinking I'd increase the wheel size to 19" and try some Eibach Pro-Kit springs. Just want something a little stiffer. Also, I noticed that the Boss 302 engine dressup kits (the foam covers) are running out everywhere so I called Ford Performance and asked if they're out of production and running out. The response was, "it looks like it". So I went ahead and bought a replacement for the crooked and cracked ones I have right now. FYI in case anyone else wants these parts. A lot of these Boss specific parts seem to be drying up.

 

[BackInBlack]

Update: Transmission removed and flywheel balanced. Machine shop said that the flywheel was already balanced and didn't do anything to it. They said they couldn't balance the flywheel and clutch together. I might try to find another machine shop but, this is where I'm at right now. So the imbalance must be coming from the clutch itself. Talked with my mechanic, and we're gonna try removing the clutch weights to see if that gets rid of the vibration. I have a feeling this might work... but at this point I'm not too hopeful it'll resolve the misfire issue. Hoping that it'll alleviate it somewhat though. Everybody's shutting down for Christmas, so, hoping to get the car back at the beginning of January. I got a replacement pilot bearing just in case but we're gonna leave the throwout bearing alone. Also doing the rear main seal while we're in there.

 

[BackInBlack]

The item BackInBlack has been updated:

Centerforce clutch weights removed. Steeda Boss springs installed along with suspension geometry corrections.

 

[BackInBlack]

Update: Removing the clutch weights resulted in increased vibration. Centerforce says that they balance these clutches with the weights off, but I'm thinking this isn't right. There are painted dots on the clutch weights and the pressure plate showing where the weights need to sit. I couldn't imagine why they'd do that unless it's for balancing purposes. SO we're taking the damn thing off.

I got this clutch with the expectation that I might be doing some mild power adders, but my engine is not healthy enough to be tuned. Given that, all I need is something that'll hold the stock power and not create shifting problems. I'm gonna miss the light pedal of the Centerforce, but I think I'm gonna pair an Exedy Mach 500 (organic single disc) with an FRPP steel flywheel. If anyone thinks this is a bad pairing, please let me know! I've gotta get this car back on the road so I'll be doing this quick. I thought about going with an OE GT clutch, but I don't want to chance getting shifting issues...

 

[steveespo]

Was the clutch and flywheel marked from the factory? Exedy clutches have paint stripes on the clutch and flywheel that indicate position used when the assembly was balanced. Hard to believe you would have missed that twice but $.02.

 

[BackInBlack]

Here are the marks. Two orange dots, one on a pressure plate finger, and the other on one of the weights. It seems to me that they must have balanced the clutch with the weights installed in this position, and marked them in case the weights were to be taken off. Maybe it's both the 12 o'clock for the clutch and for the weights?

Clutch really isn't in bad shape, and I will say it worked well. But we suspect that it was causing a vibration that could POSSIBLY be causing my misfire issue. I couldn't be that lucky, but -- probably better for the health of my engine to go with something else. I just hope the vibration goes away with the new clutch If not, I guess I've got a spare clutch

 

[BackInBlack]

No it can't be 12 o'clock because there's a flywheel dowel at 12 o'clock that wouldn't fit in that position...

 

[steveespo]

Here are the marks. Two orange dots, one on a pressure plate finger, and the other on one of the weights. It seems to me that they must have balanced the clutch with the weights installed in this position, and marked them in case the weights were to be taken off. Maybe it's both the 12 o'clock for the clutch and for the weights?

Clutch really isn't in bad shape, and I will say it worked well. But we suspect that it was causing a vibration that could POSSIBLY be causing my misfire issue. I couldn't be that lucky, but -- probably better for the health of my engine to go with something else. I just hope the vibration goes away with the new clutch If not, I guess I've got a spare clutch

View attachment 108488

Factory flywheel? I agree that a different clutch is a good place to start, since the problem began after it was installed.

 

[BackInBlack]

Factory flywheel? I agree that a different clutch is a good place to start, since the problem began after it was installed.

It's a Centerforce one. Machine shop says it's balanced and sent it back without touching it.

Yeah, it didn't have the vibration when the original clutch was in there. This is my final attempt at solving the misfire issue. We've tried everything else. If it's not this then it's the engine. It runs well enough to daily. I just can't tune it or race it in this condition. If it's the engine I'll replace it down the road when it starts to affect daily driving...

I only did the clutch as a "while you're in there" when we rebuilt the transmission. Looks like I just picked the wrong one for this car.

 

[steveespo]

It's a Centerforce one. Machine shop says it's balanced and sent it back without touching it.

Yeah, it didn't have the vibration when the original clutch was in there. This is my final attempt at solving the misfire issue. We've tried everything else. If it's not this then it's the engine. It runs well enough to daily. I just can't tune it or race it in this condition. If it's the engine I'll replace it down the road when it starts to affect daily driving...

I only did the clutch as a "while you're in there" when we rebuilt the transmission. Looks like I just picked the wrong one for this car.

Sure it's not the transmission output shaft? Checked run out?

 

[BackInBlack]

Sure it's not the transmission output shaft? Checked run out?

I sure hope not. It's newly rebuilt. Good idea though we'll check..

 

[BackInBlack]

To nuke this situation as much as possible, I just bought one of these steel clutch alignment tools as suggested by this thread:

MT-82 Trans Will Not Enter Engine All the Way! About a 1/2" gap

If the slave cylinder (not TOB) has fluid in it, the transmittion will not slide all the way in. You will need to use bolts to very carefully pull the transmission in. You will not be able to turn the bolts by hand after they start. There should be very little resistance when turning the bolts...

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[EF1]

The best alignment tool is an old input shaft with the gear cut off.

 

[BackInBlack]

The best alignment tool is an old input shaft with the gear cut off.

I actually have one. But no way to cut the gear off (mechanic probably could). This input shaft was the primary reason I rebuilt the transmission too so I don't know if it'd be better than the steel tool.

I was wondering too, wouldn't it be undesirable that a real input shaft would engage with the pilot bearing?

 

[EF1]

You could use the old shaft with the gear on it It is just a bit clumsy. I have a 26 spline shaft to align the clutch for my Tremec swap. I got it from a large Tremec distributor after the clutch manufacturer sent me a 26 spline plastic alignment tool for a Chevy pilot bearing. The clutch disks were aligned but the input shaft was hitting on the shoulder of the pilot bearing. The Tremec distributor said they always used input shafts for alignment tools. They were not worried about engaging the pilot bearing at all.

 

[BackInBlack]

Handed the input shaft over to my mechanic and told him to feel free to cut the gears off if he wants. He seemed pleasantly surprised with that.

Picked up the stock springs while I was there. They're significantly lighter than the Steeda ones we just put on. I guess that's normal since they're stiffer, eh?

 

[BackInBlack]

New clutch and flywheel are in. Got to drive the car a little and the Exedy organic clutch is significantly less grippy than the Centerforce was. Kinda disappointed about that. On the other hand, I think we got the vibration. So my next move is to break this thing in and then see if I'm still having knock. While shifting is smoother now, it feels off. Maybe it's a result of the all organic clutch, or maybe I just need to let things settle in. Clutch pedal effort is significantly higher with the Exedy, but not so much that it's a strain on my leg. I think I can live with it. Glad I still have the OEM clutch pedal springs in there! Someone who previously owned my salvage Boss had removed it's clutch pedal spring, so I kept the V6's clutch and brake pedal assembly and just swapped over the pedal covers. Overall, I prefer the grippiness and light pedal of the Centerforce, but it caused a vibration in my drivetrain that may have been causing knock/misfires. We'll see how the Exedy does. If it's too soft, I'll have my eye on the McLeod Super Street next. It's a dual sided like the Centerforce but doesn't use Centerforce's weight system. If the shifting doesn't improve, then I'll try getting the modern MGW shifter. I bet that'd fix it. But, things will probably settle in with some time.

My mechanic also asked if I'd get the Mcleod bleeder valve. He said vacuum bleeding was a huge pain. Reviews I've read on it mostly said it didn't help or was too much of a pain to use, but my mechanic loved it. He said it made bleeding the clutch a breeze. So that's good. I also got the Mcleod steel clutch alignment tool which he also appreciated and said that it was much better than the plastic one. He didn't end up using the MT-82 input shaft I provided. I decided to keep the MMR pulse ring in there and it seems to be working fine. One other thing, I got FRPP pressure plate bolts for the install, but the Centerforce came with some reusable hardened steel ones. How good are they? I don't know, but he chose to re-use the Centerforce pressure plate bolts, which is fine.

The suspension changes we did look and feel great. Ride height turned out just how I wanted. The front end actually lifted up a hair and I don't scrape on my driveway anymore. Rear end dropped down a hair and looks a little better, and there's definitely less body roll in the car. And I was able to maintain about a 1/2" of rake front to back. Pretty happy with how this turned out. And I expect that that the MM RLCA brackets I got will help me with stability when I begin datalogging again.

On the downside, I took the car back because now I have an electrical problem. I think my mechanic may have nicked the engine harness. So back the car goes. Hopefully it won't be long now.

Oh, one other thing. I've read others say that the Steeda Boss springs are kinda wide in the front and can limit camber adjustments. Apparently this is true. Max negative camber we are able to achieve with the Steeda camber plates is -1.1. This is good enough for me, for now.

 

[BackInBlack]

Looked over engine harness, looks OK. Replaced blown fuse #49 (under hood) and the only code that's left is P0151: low voltage bank 2 sensor 1 O2 sensor. Will now proceed to recheck harness, connection and for exhaust leak. If all OK will try replacing O2 sensor which is only a few months old... Hoping no damage to wiring harness. Murphy's law is hitting me pretty hard lately. On the plus side we got the alignment finished proper and was able to achieve -1.2 degrees camber on both sides with this setup. It'll do.