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Beaten by Camaros

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,909
2,397
Santiago, Chile
I really love my boss, but they are doing something right with the tubby Camaro. Last track event I was behind three Camaros and could not keep up with them in the curves. One stock ZL1 had 48.9 sec, one heavily modified track only SS with 285 and 315 R888s had 49.3 and a ZL1 with the same r888s and headers etc had 49.7. I had 50.6 with stock suspension and square Direzza ZII 275/35-19 (Pagid pads, Castrol srf, Shocks 5 front, 4 rear).

Strangely, I could hold my own on the straight, but in the curves I would start drifting before them. I though it would be the other way around. We all belong to the same V8 race club so I go up against them at almost every event I go to.

I have my P springs bought and on the way and was wondering what would be the next single suspension mod I should do to get in front of my race buddies. I have asked this before on other forums but I was unrealistically trying to get close to a GTR. Now I was hoping for some help on what I need to get that extra second out of the car.... while spending the minimum money and remaining streetable :)
I wanted to add one thing at the time to see the gain at the track for each change.

And yes... I am working on that item between the seat and the wheel but in the last four events my times are stuck within 0.1 sec.

While at the last event, was very humbled by a GTR with the switzer 800hp kit. That thing got 44 sec and left me standing on the straights. It did overdo it and lost a wheel in the air, drifting into a piano. Sad to see. But the driver was fine.
 
You are running with ZL1s that have a superior adaptive suspension, wider tires, and cost around 20k more, and you feel bad for only keeping up? And the SS was heavily modified on R888s. You really can't be comparing a reasonably stock Boss with street tires. I think the Camaro owners should be the ones feeling bad, lol. It sounds like if you got some Caster/Camber plates you would be right on their bumper in the turns. Seems to be one of the first mods everyone here does.
 
+1 on the CC plates for adjustment, plus I would be looking at better shocks. But as always more track time usually makes the biggest difference.
 
Grant 302 said:
You still need more rubber. ;D
+2. 275/40/18 and 305/35/18 NT01's are in my shopping cart.
 

Tucson 302

2013 Black LS #439
Rick I called a local place today to price the exact same tires and was told the 305's are on factory backorder. Cheapest I have found them so far is $248 for the front and $349 for the rear. Anyone no of better prices?
 
367
1
Wait...this track is only 50 seconds long for you to do?
If it's that insanely tight, I'm not surprised the Boss is at such a disadvantage (I assume this must be autoX).

More rubber for sure. I find that on my car, a big limiting factor is mid corner bite. One simply has to be patient before pouring on the gas...and this is costing time.
I think anything you can do to help with rear grip will help bring that time difference down. I suspect running narrower than the original stock rear tire size is not helping matters on your end.
Have you tried something like disconnecting the rear bar and trying?

Also, what is your alignment? And what is the most frustrating thing you're deailing with (handling trait) that is costing you time?
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,909
2,397
Santiago, Chile
Sorry I forgot to mention... I have MM plates and run -1.9 camber. Was I a little to optimistic in hoping that once the P springs are in it would give me the extra second??

I do loose time waiting to put the power down for lack of rear traction, but understeer is almost all gone and the rotation is great. I guess eventually I have to pull the trigger on a set of wider wheels and some fat rubber...

Our tracks down here in Chile are only a mile long so far, In march we get a 4km plus track opening up which should be fun. Counting days!!
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,909
2,397
Santiago, Chile
The Dunlop Direzza ZII seem to be light years ahead of the Pirellis and Bridgestones I was using before. The wear on the big shoulders is so much better then the more street oriented tires. I will try with out the rear sway bar once I get the P springs in.
 
367
1
Good to know about your setup.
I assume stock toe also (0)?

Regarding springs - you will have to wait even longer to put power down :) At least, that is if you keep the rear swaybar. You are making the back end much stiffer once you lower the car due to the shorter roll couple distance.
Not to mention, I'm finding the stock shocks are already taxed with the factory springs. I give my car 5 or 6 really good hot laps and shock fade starts to set in. With lower ride height and slightly firmer spring rates, you will be getting into shock fade much sooner. If you intend to install the P springs, you'd be doing yourself a big favor by installing a different strut.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,909
2,397
Santiago, Chile
Good to know about the struts, I will look over the D spec struts. I wonder if something like this
http://store.kennybrown.com/product/rear-suspension/trac-pac-rear-traction-kit-2005-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-shelby-gt500
and
http://store.kennybrown.com/product/front-suspension/front-lower-control-arm-module-2010-2014-mustang-boss-302-and-shelby-gt500

Would they help as well??


To answer another point, I guess the most frustrating problem I have now (as pointed out by another poster), is grip after the mid point of the curve. Its very easy to control but it means lifting off for a sec to bring the rear around to where you want to go, then heavy on the power. Once I am pointed in the right direction I do not notice too much the tail. Only in one very tight 2nd gear corner before a 1/4mile straight do I have to really watch the tail on the power. Funny enough come to think of it... thats where the Camaros could not gain on me..... I guess thats the torsen at work, none of the Chevys have one, they are are electronic, though my buddy with the SS is threatening to get one.

PS. Yes 0 toe
 
1,022
97
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Texas
You need to go with bigger rubber…in the end wide sticky tires will give you the biggest gain aside from the obvious driver mod :) Chevy always puts bigger tires on their cars…one thing Ford is lacking on. The 13 and 14 GT500 have the same size rears as the Boss and it's almost 700hp? That's ridiculous. I imagine Ford is trying to keep the price down but if you're buying a GT500 you're spending around $60k anyway so I hope you can afford tires otherwise maybe you shouldn't have purchased the car. Just my 2 cents
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Mad Hatter (ex splatter) said:
I was afraid you would say that.

I *told* you six months ago on SVTP ;)

[quote author=Grant808]
Start with better tires...R6s or takeoff slicks 295 or bigger all the way around.
[/quote]

For those interesting in one of the tracks:
las-vizcachas.jpg
 

Tucson 302

2013 Black LS #439
Mad Hatter (ex splatter) said:
I am sure your right. Still a little nervous about going to slicks. THe GTR I mentioned had R6 slicks, when he lost control he really did slide.

Tires will help, but no matter what tire you use when you have as much HP as a GTR driving out of control will get you sideways in a hurry
 

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