BMR LCA a relo bracket question

[BMRTech]

Hello Boss owners. This thread was brought to my attention by a fellow Boss owner, so I figured I would share some quick information.

It is likely that I dealt with the OP on this issue, but I cannot recall. What I can say is, a BMR LCA Relocation bracket failing under any circumstance, is very rare - so rare that I would describe it as non-existent. The only time I could even imagine it happening, would be if the damper weight bolts were not installed initially. As of right now, as I am typing this, I am not aware of any failures (bend, breaks, etc) of our LCA Brackets, since we redesigned them years ago.

I would put our LCA Brackets up against any other companies, in a split second, for any use, without hesitation. Believe it, or not, our development, trial and error over the years is what has led to many of the excellent parts you are using today. (IE: Relocation brackets, when we offered them, in 04/05 and the rest of the world said it was "marketing" hype - fast forward to today, and they are one of the hottest suspension items for the S197)

This quote "BMR parts are for drag cars, not road course use" - while I completely disagree, I can understand one's view on that. We have experienced growing pains, like many others have. Primarily, those pains have been with our Tubular FLCA.

As for the polyurethane, well, it happens. There is not a lot of difference between the available suspension components that feature Poly ends, in the Poly itself. Cars that spend a lot of time on a road course, AutoX, etc...especially with a good tire, should stay away from Poly components on most pivoting areas of the suspension. The majority of the market uses Poly, but that does not mean it is the proper material for the job.

steveespo - I am completely baffled by your statement about our PHR clunking, clanking and rattling. These parts are not complicated, they are simply a bar with bushings, and sleeves. Ironically, the bar you installed is a spitting image of ours...and they perform the same, we have tested them. I am not sure what your issue was, and I am glad you resolved it, but we are 30,000 PHR deep....and I get maybe 5 calls a year about them. Those calls are, 99.99% of the time, about a clunk that is a result of a loose jam nut.

And lastly, to clarify about a post stating "K-Member" failures - I am not aware of any incidents where our design has failed. Road Course, Drag, Street, etc. I have had (1) incident, where a BMR K-Member weld failed. It was repaired, and the car has been beating on that K-Member ever since. Said car is a road course car, with our entire front suspension, on R tires and 3900lbs.

If anyone has any questions, concerns, complaints etc - do not hesitate to contact me.

Kelly

 

[steveespo]

Kelly
I don't put down manufacturers, I had one of your PHB back in early 2011 when I lowered the car. There was a clunk over bumps that I at first thought was the Borla Muffler's I had installed, spent a few hours checking the muffler clearances and did a retorque on all of the suspension bolts that were part of the shock/spring/PHB install. Still had clunk. Changed PHB back to Ford OEM and the clunk went away. My speculation was that the bar I got from you was made with slightly bigger than Ford bolt hole in the pivot sleeve and that caused the rattle. Sold your bar on SVT and never had a complaint from the buyer. Bar currently on the car is a Ford Racing bar, it is now the only thing on the rear of the car that does NOT clunk ;D full spherical bearings on all the control arms and lower shock mounts. Wish you and your company all the best.
Steve

 

[Mad Hatter]

I think it's 2" and 3" down for the FRPP brackets.

Matt, you did say that your roads in Chile are a bit rough too, right? Might be a factor in bending the brackets.

The FRPP brackets taper down closer to the lower mounting holes and should resist the twisting motion better. You'd just be giving up the lowest 4" adjustment hole.

I think the most likely reason must have been a off the track learning experience. I straightened out the lower part of the bracket and its been fine since. At least another 20 track days. Nice to see BMR here defending their products! Two other Chilean Mustang friends have the same LCA/bracket set up and are happy as well.

Going to Cortex coilovers this month, one of the big reasons is setting up a ride height that does not hit the speed bumps down here!!

 

[venom52]

I have installed BMR lowers with relocation brackets and no issues so far. Car really feels planted in corners and of course no more wheel hop of any sorts.

 

[TymeSlayer]

I really like all my BMR parts. LCA, adj. relo brackets and adj. PH bar. Am looking to add the adj. UCAs and mounting bracket at some point. I'm no track rat but I have noticed a tighter feel to the car on the track than with my OEM set-up. I too experience no wheel hop. True I'm not track rat but these suspension components do may the car much better handing on the track. Chalk me up as a fan.

 

[blacksheep-1]

FWIW these relocation brackets seem to work best for the drag racer guys, we've been back and forth with these brackets and IMO the jury is still out on them as far as how well they work in a road race car.
If you could ever get to see one of our GS cars going up the elevator, they are stupid stock, they are just highly tuned.

 

[DGRacing]

I use the BMR relo brackets, but when I got them I wasn't aware of all the options, history, etc. I also use the BMR .125 DOM tubular K-member with control arm support and radiator support. I use the 302S front control arms however, and passed on the BMR ones. I also use the 302S spherical rear LCA's (not adjustable). So far, the setup has been working. Yes, some trepidation with the stories and what not, but heck, Kenny Brown stuff broke for a lot of racers and they had to redesign their stuff a couple times, so it can happen.

I'm playing it by ear and keeping an eye on things. So far so good. But all points well taken.

 

[BMRTech]

FWIW these relocation brackets seem to work best for the drag racer guys, we've been back and forth with these brackets and IMO the jury is still out on them as far as how well they work in a road race car.
If you could ever get to see one of our GS cars going up the elevator, they are stupid stock, they are just highly tuned.

Yes, it seems to be hit or miss, relocating the RLCA positioning on this platform. There are drag racers, road racers, autoX, etc....who have luck in the stock position, and with RLCA Relocation Brackets.

One thing is certain - there is absolutely a benefit to relocating the UCA and LCA angles when significant drop is performed to these chassis.

A problem is, many people do not understand that when they lower the car, they are ALSO lowering the front UCA Mounting position. So, when they do correct their LCA angle, they are not compensating for their UCA position. This can lead to stability issues in certain conditions - and is one of the reasons we actually RAISE the upper mounting position on our UCA Mount (upper hole engineered for lowered car with RLCA Brackets / Lower Hole engineered for OEM-ish height vehicle)

These brackets definitely work for a straight line guy. They also work for corners, if the supporting suspension system is tuned accordingly.

I use the BMR relo brackets, but when I got them I wasn't aware of all the options, history, etc. I also use the BMR .125 DOM tubular K-member with control arm support and radiator support. I use the 302S front control arms however, and passed on the BMR ones. I also use the 302S spherical rear LCA's (not adjustable). So far, the setup has been working. Yes, some trepidation with the stories and what not, but heck, Kenny Brown stuff broke for a lot of racers and they had to redesign their stuff a couple times, so it can happen.

I'm playing it by ear and keeping an eye on things. So far so good. But all points well taken.

Darren, regardless of what you read online, the components you are using from us, have a great track record. On road courses, drag strips, etc. The only "issue" that we have experienced with our parts durability, is with our Tubular FLCA. The previous versions were simply not suited for heavy duty handling use. The current versions, while very robust and strong....are still not 100% guaranteed in a handling environment (as I would doubt anyone's are, honestly)

I could sit here and list plenty of road course cars using our FLCA, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is definitely a higher chance of failure with any aftermarket tubular FLCA, at the present time. I address this with each an every customer who I directly speak to about this topic. I hold nothing against anyone who advises against our FLCA for handling duty: and I cannot blame them for their opinion on it.

As for the BMR parts that you have on your car, Darren, I am confident that they are among the best parts available. If I thought there was something better, I would tell you.

 

[The Rip]

I have Ford Lowering Springs, BMR Upper and Lower with BMR relocation Brackets, Steeda Adjustable Panhard bar and Brace.
No issues yet, This stuff have been on nearly two years. Steve

 

[65sohc]

Can the Kenny Brown roll center relocation kit be used with BMR LCA relo brackets?

 

[BMRTech]

Can the Kenny Brown roll center relocation kit be used with BMR LCA relo brackets?

Are you talking about their PHR relocation kit?

If so, I do not see any issues using it. The only thing you will have to pay close attention to, is the OEM PHR Bolt location. Their kit places the PHR outboard of the OEM PHR Mount, so you will need to ensure that the top bolt on the driver side of their kit is long enough to capture our LCA Bracket top mount. If it does not, you could always add a smaller/short bolt with nut and washers to lock the BMR Relo Bracket top mount to the OEM PHR bracket.

It should not be an issue.

 

[Flyboygsxr]

I am pretty sure my BMR LCA relocation brackets are bent. You can't see the bend with the naked eye but when I measured wheel gaps around the fender on the left and right sides of the car they were off by about 1/4". My suspicion arose when I noticed the car had a slight crab angle when driving it down the road like the rear axle wasn't inline with the front tires. I have had the brackets for about 2 years so I don't think BMR will warranty them. It's unfortunate because I just finished putting the whole rear suspension back together. The BMR brackets are beefy but they still bent and I have never drag raced this car or had a hard launch, just road course stuff. Any thoughts?

Adam

PS…I do have a set of new Steeda LCA but they have to be welded in. I am thinking that could be an option as they look very strong and I could get the rear end aligned and then weld them in.

 

[THRAPY]

Can the Kenny Brown roll center relocation kit be used with BMR LCA relo brackets?

Nope. The drivers side roll center bracket uses/covers the hole that the BMR rear strap would use.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Nope. The drivers side roll center bracket uses/covers the hole that the BMR rear strap would use.

I helped install a full KB setup and I'm not sure those parts play nice with any other manufacturer.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

I have a KB rear suspension set up with the exception on the UCA. I'm thinking of reinstalling it this spring due to our recent Poly UCA conversation here on this forum.

I do have the KB relo brackets and from the looks of them it appears to maintain the OEM spec for the LCA relocation points.

I'm thinking about installing a set of HD or Extreme MM LCA with bearings at each end. I don't see where there would be an issue with the install.

Does anyone have experience with using the KB relo brackets with other make LCA's?
Thanks
Dave

 

[BMRTech]

I am pretty sure my BMR LCA relocation brackets are bent. You can't see the bend with the naked eye but when I measured wheel gaps around the fender on the left and right sides of the car they were off by about 1/4". My suspicion arose when I noticed the car had a slight crab angle when driving it down the road like the rear axle wasn't inline with the front tires. I have had the brackets for about 2 years so I don't think BMR will warranty them. It's unfortunate because I just finished putting the whole rear suspension back together. The BMR brackets are beefy but they still bent and I have never drag raced this car or had a hard launch, just road course stuff. Any thoughts?

Adam

PS…I do have a set of new Steeda LCA but they have to be welded in. I am thinking that could be an option as they look very strong and I could get the rear end aligned and then weld them in.

Adam, I would love to check those brackets out if you truly believe they are bent. If they are, I have no problem replacing them - we have never had one bend when installed properly, so it would definitely be an eye opener.

I believe that many people mistake bent, for misaligned. The issue you are speaking of, is nothing uncommon with various brand relocation brackets. Due to the OEM vs Aftermarket tolerances (I call it compounding tolerances) - many times you simply run into a mis-alignment issue. Basically, the laser cut bolt pattern on the LCA Bracket may not jive with the location of the damper weight nut that is welded onto the axle from the factory.

When the issues occur, typically the driver side wheelbase will be shorter than the passenger side. (driver side tire further forward)

The fix for this is to loosen the passenger side bracket, and ensure it is shifted in the furthest rearward position possible. The way you ensure this, is simply to make sure the bolt holes are bottomed out on the bolts, in the furthest rearward position.

If that does not work, then you can slot the damper hole (rear side) to get the thrust angle aligned. This is very rare, but does happen (with all brackets)

The design of our RLCA Brackets, just about makes them impossible to bend fore/aft. When load testing them, we exceeded the capacity of the mounting bolts, before exceeding the fore/aft capabilities of our RLCA Brackets. The bolts will bend or shear, before our brackets bend fore/aft. Now, they do deflect slightly, before the bolts will yield.

You would be surprised at how many people's thrust angles are off, and they do not know it (after installing various brand RLCA Brackets). You would also be surprised how inaccurate using wheel/tire to fender measurements is, in comparison to actual thrust angle.

Back to the bent bracket. Like I stated, I would be very happy to check them out if you want to send them to me. If they are indeed bent, I would replace them in a split second.

Nope. The drivers side roll center bracket uses/covers the hole that the BMR rear strap would use.

When you say uses/covers....does it use the hole, or cover it?

If it uses the hole, then you could likely just run a longer bolt and it would accept our upper strap.

It is no different (I think, from what I see) than our PHR008 relocation kit. That kit uses the PHR mounting hole, but we provide a longer bolt that still captures the oem foremost tab, where our RLCA Bracket upper strap attaches.

From the pics I see online, It appears that it can be done.

Do you have any pics of the inner side of that system, when mounted?

 

[Flyboygsxr]

I remeasured and you are right…the driver's side is further forward by 1cm. The driver side is 6.5cm from the fender to the wheel measured at the top of the stripe and the passenger side is 7.5cm measured in the same spot. What you are saying makes sense so I will see if I can shift the passenger side forward.

I am all about customer service when it comes to buying and the fact BMR has a rep that gets on the forum is good enough for me. I will look into it and hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks again

Adam

 

[BMRTech]

I remeasured and you are right…the driver's side is further forward by 1cm. The driver side is 6.5cm from the fender to the wheel measured at the top of the stripe and the passenger side is 7.5cm measured in the same spot. What you are saying makes sense so I will see if I can shift the passenger side forward.

I am all about customer service when it comes to buying and the fact BMR has a rep that gets on the forum is good enough for me. I will look into it and hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks again

Adam

Remember, forcing the RLCA Bracket itself back - pushes the tire forward. Pushing the bracket forward, will move the tire back.

When doing this, you want to remove the passenger side LCA from the bracket, loosen ALL of the RLCA Bracket bolts...and shift the bracket as far back as it will possibly go, and tighten it in that most REARward position. After you reconnect the LCA, and sit the car down, it should pull that tire forward and even up your gaps from side to side.

On that note, I would really like to see you get the car on an alignment rack first, so I can see what your thrust angle and toe is out back. This will tell the whole story.

If you ever have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Good luck!

 

[Flyboygsxr]

So, I got the car up, pulled the passenger side control arm off, axle weight, and the LCA relocation bracket bolts. I tried to move the control arm back like we talked about but got little to no adjustability out of it. Due to the location of the other bolt holes that secure the control arm and short of trying to bend the control arm in a vice to move it backwards the measurements came out the same when I reinstalled everything. I do see the potential for adjustment but I would have to bend the bracket. The arm that reaches up at the highest point on the axle with the elongated hole would be where I would bend it to try and make an adjustment but I don't think that would be a good solution. Let me know what you think.

Adam

 

[302 Hi Pro]

FWIW these relocation brackets seem to work best for the drag racer guys, we've been back and forth with these brackets and IMO the jury is still out on them as far as how well they work in a road race car.
If you could ever get to see one of our GS cars going up the elevator, they are stupid stock, they are just highly tuned.

Hi BlackSheep:

I too sometimes wonder about the LCA relocation brackets. Are they really needed on a road course prepped car? This was a big topic of discussion back in 2011. Then, there was much discussion in regard to the maintaining the proper angle of the LCA when the car was lowered.

Then relocation brackets were thought to be needed as the front mounting point of the LCA was lowered and without brackets the angle or pitch of the LCA's were changed.

Do you know the proper LCA angle we should have on our S197 chassis Mustangs?

Thank you for any info you can share,
Dave
302 Hi Pro