S197 BOSS 302 Race Car Build Thread Build Thread

[Grant 302]

I'd check the seats with a light lapping compound while apart for the springs.

 

[TMSBOSS]

The bearings on 8 appear to show some stress. Crank OK?

 

[VoodooBoss]

Is it cylinder #8 that has the cooling problem? Why #8 on your car and not one of the others?

 

[ilesjohn]

Is it cylinder #8 that has the cooling problem? Why #8 on your car and not one of the others?

rick I had a problem with no8 on my stock engine too

 

[VoodooBoss]

rick I had a problem with no8 on my stock engine too

As I recall yours was an early build right? Drew and I have engines from the low 1,000's. I know a few of the others that fried were early builds.

 

[ilesjohn]

As I recall yours was an early build right? Drew and I have engines from the low 1,000's. I know a few of the others that fried were early builds.

mine was built 8/3/2011, my no 8 piston actually looked a bit worse then drew's with the piston burned between intake valve pockets and top ring. I believe the problem is cooling combined with a thin sharp edge in the valve pocket cut on the piston. I was running the MMR cooling mod but it didn't save it, (I do beat it into the ground though) I belive AEDas well as most of the reputable tuners have added fuel to the number 8 cylinder to eliminate this.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Mine was a June build as I think Drew's was too. Are you running an AED tune now? Drew are you running a tune?

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Crank is great, looks beautiful.

Date on my block says June 2012.

I am tuned but wasn't running straight race fuel like I should have. All cylinders show signs of detonation in the quench region on the head. #8 is just where it got out of control.
If this were a "regular" Coyote and not a Roadrunner/BOSS that piston would have grenaded long ago.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Your new short block should be a step up in strength from the Boss. ;D


Should get plenty of life out of the new build.

Was there much damage to the cylinder wall on#8? The skirt looked pretty bad. Could it be cleaned up? Just curious how durable, rebuildible our liners are?

Glad the Pistons didn't try to switch holes. LOL. Been there, done that.

 

[Tucson 302]

Hey Drew you can have the piston on my Track Attack trophy if you need it

 

[twistedneck]

What's a safe RPM with those valve springs?

Don't use those valve springs.. I have a set - they are nice for street and minimal use above 7500 rpm but they are not race springs. They will fatigue more quickly and are not equal spring to spring. They are so inexpensive you wont lose much and Livernois has PAC springs on the shelf I believe.. check Manley also. Don't forget the W/C guys didn't use those springs they used the Livernois setup.

Since you have the light weight valves you still use a nice light weight spring just much better material, slightly more force, and much better surface treatment on the wire. one broken spring will waste a $20,000 motor like this in seconds.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Where wer you with this information last week?

Anyways a fresh set of stock B302 springs are installed, after an unsuccessful search for the elusive Roush Yates springs.

Engine goes back together today then into the car on Sunday at latest!

 

[twistedneck]

Where wer you with this information last week?

Anyways a fresh set of stock B302 springs are installed, after an unsuccessful search for the elusive Roush Yates springs.

Engine goes back together today then into the car on Sunday at latest!

You are fine because the boss valves are so light.

Trouble starts with high rpm above 7600 sustained (7600rpm sustained proven for 50,000 mile durability).. Just don't flirt w 7800 plus very often. Doo what I'm doing. Make it work until you have the engine back out. Hell I'm using the bigger cams too.. So double wham. Or, realize you still have the opportunity now to buy new gaskets and the head bolt kit and put w/c springs on it. It will allow 8000 w o worry.

Edit.. Its not nearly that hard to swap the springs.. Leave head bolted up there is a simple way to do that.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Yeah that should not be a big deal, typically I am shifting around 7000 and can go up to 7800 on occasion if I need to hold a gear.

Apparently you can use the spring tool I have from Freedom Racing to swap springs with the cams installed still, but that would probably be a PITA to work around. Next time.

 

[steveespo]

Drew how do you change springs with the cams in place? Seems like the followers at least would be in the way. Im gonna you tube search it to see if anyone has video taped that procedure.
Steve

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Drew how do you change springs with the cams in place? Seems like the followers at least would be in the way. Im gonna you tube search it to see if anyone has video taped that procedure.
Steve

Yeah let me know what you find. FRTD advertises that you can do it, not sure how, though

Here are some photos from today.





Made this oil adapter remover tool for $2.40. Too bad the one for the BOSS cooler is smaller.




Gasket in-place...


Passenger head installed & torqued (not nearly as bad as removing the stock bolts):


Fresh exhaust studs & Watson Racing Motor Mounts:


Both heads and manifolds installed, done for today.


I should have the build completed tomorrow, then we'll stick it back in the car (and maybe fire it?) on Sunday!

 

[BigTaco]

Not to Hyjack but the Boss springs should be good to 8k, right? Who makes the "secret sauce" valve springs that are being used by roush/yates?

Great progress by the way!

 

[twistedneck]

Not to Hyjack but the Boss springs should be good to 8k, right? Who makes the "secret sauce" valve springs that are being used by roush/yates?

Great progress by the way!

PAC makes a lot of the valve springs used by speed shops and tons of cup teams, pro racers.

http://www.racingsprings.com/Valve Springs/Store/13

PSI is the king even more so than pac IMO.
http://psisprings.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=34

Livernois already picked out the perfect spring that is some amount higher load than the boss and it has more consistency and greater load loss.. not to mention fracture toughness. they cant be too strong or vct wont work at least that's what I've read.

Boss std. springs are good to 8 but not sustained at 8.. that is why the redline is 7600 the valves will float depending on the cam you are using.

 

[Grant 302]

Drew how do you change springs with the cams in place? Seems like the followers at least would be in the way. Im gonna you tube search it to see if anyone has video taped that procedure.
Steve

I've only done 2V modulars, but I think the same info applies. Plus the freedom racing tool is a lot safer than the 2V cam 'hook' type tool, where the cams actually need to be in to do the spring removal.

The 'shoes' from the compressor tool are offset and open on the end so they slip between the retainer and the followers. The followers can be popped out once the springs are compressed to get to the keepers with a telescoping magnet. Dealing with the keepers is the hardest part IMO. A dab of assembly lube helps them stick to the valve stem when re-assembling. The piston of the cylinder you are working on needs to be at TDC so you don't drop the valves. You'd only need to park the crank in 4 positions if you do the opposite firing cylinder at the same time.

 

[steveespo]

I've only done 2V modulars, but I think the same info applies. Plus the freedom racing tool is a lot safer than the 2V cam 'hook' type tool, where the cams actually need to be in to do the spring removal.

The 'shoes' from the compressor tool are offset and open on the end so they slip between the retainer and the followers. The followers can be popped out once the springs are compressed to get to the keepers with a telescoping magnet. Dealing with the keepers is the hardest part IMO. A dab of assembly lube helps them stick to the valve stem when re-assembling. The piston of the cylinder you are working on needs to be at TDC so you don't drop the valves. You'd only need to park the crank in 4 positions if you do the opposite firing cylinder at the same time.

OK Grant so I kinda get it.
Here is my take on the procedure based on what you describe and freedoms video
Remove, coils, cam covers.
Rotate cylinder to be worked on to TDC
Remove cam bearing caps on cylinder to be worked on.
Install freedom racing spring compressor on pair of valve springs and compress
Depress lash adjuster and slide follower (rocker arm) out from between cam and valve tip????
Remove keepers, retainers and springs
Install new springs, replace retainers and keepers, slide follower back in place.
Release spring compressor and remove.
Reinstall cam bearing caps and retorque NEW bolts to spec.
Repeat on cylinder that is opposite in the firing order, (at TDC on cam base circle)
Rotate crank 90 degrees and repeat 3 more times.
Reinstall cam covers, coils and the rest of parts removed for access
Rev to 8000 rpm

I think I got it right. Freedom racing does have a good video which shows the process on "bare" heads with no cams installed but if shows how their tool works very clearly. No vids on you tube showing the job in car with cams in place that I could find though.

Guess I have my next project, considering I have run stock Coyote springs on track for 4 years now at reclines from 7000 to now 7700 rpm, might be fun to freshen them up prior to the big long lock swap that hopefully won't happen until this time next year.

Steve