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Boss Balking shift at Track definitive Thread

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
Boss 302 # 2322 Built Oct 2011

Mods that could effect shifting on my car. I am running Redline MTL as I wanted a thicker fluid for the FL heat, SRF brake/clutch fluid, Steeda Shift Bracket and JHR Clutch Line. My TX has always been a good shifter in normal operation with no grinding or other shifting issues.

The problem, when at the Track ie Road Course after a couple of laps the TX would not cleanly shift either up or down mainly the 4 to 5 and 5 to 4 shift. It would refuse to go into gear until the rpm dropped which could take upwards of .5 sec which was really frustrating. I did not believe it was the shifter as it shifts fine in normal operation and decided it was acting like a clutch that was full releasing when it got HOT ie weak fingers. Some people have had luck with changing the shifter, Clutch fluid and adding the JHR, or equivalent, clutch line. For those people I am very happy.

My solution was to change out the stock clutch for an aftermarket clutch to see if my theory was correct. TJ @ TrickPro Motorsports decided we should try the RAM Dual Disc clutch which didn't fix the problem as it had issues of its own. See https://trackmustangsonline.com/boss-302-technical-forum/ram-clutch-boss-fail/ Plan B consisted of installing a McLeod RST Street Twin Series Clutch + McLeod Lightweight Steel Flywheel. Picked up da Boss Friday with the new clutch and proceded to give it a quick break in around town with multiple shifts to bed it. The clutch was a little grabby in 1st when I picked up the car but after break in it smoothed out nicely. Pedal effort seems a little higher than stock but not significantly so and I actually like the feel better.

The test day. Saturday I went to PBIR with HOD to see if I had found a solution for my shifting issue. It was 90 degrees and we were running 30 minute sessions. Folks I solved my problem ;D da Boss shifted perfectly on the 1st lap and the last lap of each session with no change in shifting effort. ;) I ran 3 sessons with the same results every session.

Conclusion I am not saying that the clutch I installed is the only clutch that would solve this issue, it is really overkill being rated for 900+ ft/lb of Torque, but it did solve my problem. ;D ;D ;D

TJ and TrickPro were awesome during the whole process which took longer than either of us would have liked. The up shot was TJ did a second R&R of the TX to take out the RAM clutch and install the McLeod clutch at no charge to me. Big thumbs up to a great guy and friend. I also did do the right thing after he told me no charge and gave him a large tip $$ for doing the right thing. ;) http://trickpro.net/

Peter
 
Great news Peter but I’ll wait until you have a couple of more track days on it to call it definitive. ;) While it’s great to have a solution this is going to be expensive for something that shouldn’t be an issue in the first place.

I’m having issues shifting on track mostly from 2-3 and sporadically from 3-4. I haven’t used 5th on the tracks I’ve been on but suspect that would be an issue as well. I also have Redline MTL, Steeda shifter bracket, DOT 4 brake fluid and the JHR clutch line on the way. I’ve also ordered a MGW shifter but I’m cautiously optimistic it will help.

I’ve always suspected the clutch or something related and not the tranny because mine shifts so nicely everywhere but on a track. Another theory out there is the slave cylinder is overheating and not fully releasing the clutch and there have been slave cylinder failures reported. Are you still using the stock slave?
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
5 DOT 0 said:
Great news Peter but I’ll wait until you have a couple of more track days on it to call it definitive. ;) While it’s great to have a solution this is going to be expensive for something that shouldn’t be an issue in the first place.

I’m having issues shifting on track mostly from 2-3 and sporadically from 3-4. I haven’t used 5th on the tracks I’ve been on but suspect that would be an issue as well. I also have Redline MTL, Steeda shifter bracket, DOT 4 brake fluid and the JHR clutch line on the way. I’ve also ordered a MGW shifter but I’m cautiously optimistic it will help.

I’ve always suspected the clutch or something related and not the tranny because mine shifts so nicely everywhere but on a track. Another theory out there is the slave cylinder is overheating and not fully releasing the clutch and there have been slave cylinder failures reported. Are you still using the stock slave?

Still on stock slave and I don't think their is an aftermarket option at this time. IMHO I do believe I have solved my issue at an expense $$$$ though. I won't be back on the track until the fall as it is to darn HOT right now to play.

Peter
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
Justin said:
I was convinced it was the pressure plate as well.

Was a centerforce DYAD clutch every considered? i know its more expensive.

Justin,

Their are many options for clutches, and I am sure many of them would work, and no I didn't consider the DYAD clutch. TJ had installed the McLeod on a 5.0GT with a tune and raised redline and it performed flawlessly so that is the reason we went with the McLeod as Plan B.

Peter
 
Just posted this https://trackmustangsonline.com/boss-302-racing/good-and-bad-at-sebring/msg40382/#msg40382 before I read this Peter.

I had a bad time this weekend at Sebring with the shifting. I hope this stays working for you over time, keep us informed. I am willing to try things but want to know we have a long term fix.
 
2012YellowBoss said:
Just posted this https://trackmustangsonline.com/boss-302-racing/good-and-bad-at-sebring/msg40382/#msg40382 before I read this Peter.

I had a bad time this weekend at Sebring with the shifting. I hope this stays working for you over time, keep us informed. I am willing to try things but want to know we have a long term fix.
I read your other post. Most recently you were having 4-5 and 5-4 issues. Sounds like it was beyond that this week before your clutch stuck to the floor?
 
It started with the 4-5 getting much worse then ever before, I always have 4-5 problems. I had minor 5-4 and 3-4 problems before, MGW helped with those but nothing like this weekend, it was real bad. Also had big problems going 4-3, first time. Those are the only shifts I make at this track.
 
I am not sure this has been posted before but has anyone seen this problem on the TA cars at Miller Motorsports? I would think as much track time that those cars see would be a good indication if there is a clutch vs tranny problem or both.
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
2012YellowBoss said:
Just posted this https://trackmustangsonline.com/boss-302-racing/good-and-bad-at-sebring/msg40382/#msg40382 before I read this Peter.

I had a bad time this weekend at Sebring with the shifting. I hope this stays working for you over time, keep us informed. I am willing to try things but want to know we have a long term fix.

Believe me it wasn't easy to spend 2k on a clutch but it was either that or sell da Boss and move on. I will tell you that cooler air temp did not seem to help the shifting problem as it was balking when I was at CMP in 55 degree wet weather.

I think over time the OEM clutch gets progressively weaker and the problem just keeps getting worse. My big concern was I was going to damage the tranny by forcing the shift.

Peter
 
Did you try removing the helper spring on the pedal? I didn't see you mention that. Some people claim that is the fix.

I haven't had it stick to the floor, but I have had it get stuck half way up. And I get lots of 3rd lock outs, but those I am pretty sure are the shifter as I can avoid it by pushing 1/4" to the right past the self centering and then pushing it into gear. I'm convinced the main part of my issue is a ****ed MC that is sucking in air or a slave that is sucking in air and spitting it into the MC. If I push the clutch down, then the brake gets soft and loose (even just sitting at idle). Trying to get Ford to take a real look at it, I left the car at the dealer for 2 days and they said they would do a thorough test drive but only put < 1/2 mile on it which is once around the block. I also have a leaking bleeder. And if I don't bleed the clutch regularly, I get grinds and 1st (and recently 2nd) kick-outs. The MC also seems to leak more than it should, though I haven't determined if it is all coming from the top or some from the bottom as the stains seem to indicate.
 
OLOABoss said:
I think over time the OEM clutch gets progressively weaker and the problem just keeps getting worse. My big concern was I was going to damage the tranny by forcing the shift.

Guess I got use to doing that. I appreciate your work with all of this as I am sure everyone else does. I'm in for long term results, hopefully we can talk more if we do a track day together.

badasbullitt said:
I am not sure this has been posted before but has anyone seen this problem on the TA cars at Miller Motorsports? I would think as much track time that those cars see would be a good indication if there is a clutch vs tranny problem or both.

My car at TA, the yellow 15 was fine even if I did not drive as hard as I do now. Still it shifted better then mine did at that point in time. This whole things sucks on a otherwise great car, the only bright spot is that I'm not the only one that has the problem anymore ;D I feel vindicated.
 
It seems a little ridiculous how high a % of people tracking them have issues, at least based on this forum. My old track car was known for having a glass tranny but even those it was usually only if you did 40 min sessions and it was not billed as a racecar with a license plate.
 
2012YellowBoss said:
badasbullitt said:
I am not sure this has been posted before but has anyone seen this problem on the TA cars at Miller Motorsports? I would think as much track time that those cars see would be a good indication if there is a clutch vs tranny problem or both.

My car at TA, the yellow 15 was fine even if I did not drive as hard as I do now. Still it shifted better then mine did at that point in time. This whole things sucks on a otherwise great car, the only bright spot is that I'm not the only one that has the problem anymore ;D I feel vindicated.


I do not track mine but have had the occasional 3rd lock out. Called MMS and asked a few questions regarding their cars such as oil usage,gear grind while cold,clutch and tranny issues and all I heard back was the 5.0's like to use oil and that was it. So I guess time will tell.
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
If removing the helper spring fixed your problem I am happy it was an easy fix for you. ;) I know a little about mechanics and the helper spring has nothing to do with clutch release which was, past tense, my problem.

Peter
 
2012YellowBoss said:
My car at TA, the yellow 15 was fine even if I did not drive as hard as I do now. Still it shifted better then mine did at that point in time. This whole things sucks on a otherwise great car, the only bright spot is that I'm not the only one that has the problem anymore ;D I feel vindicated.
I, too, drove the yellow blaze Boss at TA. It shifted much, much better than mine does.
 
OLOABoss said:
If removing the helper spring fixed your problem I am happy it was an easy fix for you. ;) I know a little about mechanics and the helper spring has nothing to do with clutch release which was, past tense, my problem.

Peter
Having two stock clutches fail for separate reasons already, I really appreciate you doing this. With two failures I'm at the end of my rope having track weekends blown especially as far as I have to travel. Even though I'm not currently having the shifting issues many of you have, with two failures mysfelf and many others reported, I question the viability of the stock clutch on a track car. Will be following your progress this fall when you get back on track.
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
Wish I could along with the bill to Porsche for their stupid glued in water fittings on the GT3. I would have another 8k in my pocket. ;)

Gary,

Maybe the silver lining to your 2 OEM replacement clutches is they haven't been in long enough to heat cycle out. As for being the clutch test mule somebody had to do it. You and other early owners did a lot of testing that I was able to piggyback onto.

Peter
 

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