Boss Transmission/Clutch Issues Poll Discussion Thread

[athens7]

Thanks for the picture, Rick. I was hoping the stock diaphragm spring utilized flat fingers, with the hope that Ford could replace it with a slightly stronger spring with bent fingers and resolve the pedal problem. Oh, well

While the sticking clutch and the shift lock may not be the same problem, it is hard for me to believe that the causes are unrelated. As the clutch assembly is a pretty straightforward mechanical contrivance, there are only so many possible causes. Again, I would have to start with the pressure plate diaphragm spring, as it is the item that draws the pressure plate away from the clutch disk, releasing the clamping load. I suppose it is possible that the spring is ineffective in both directions (engaging and disengaging) at high RPMs. Whether this would be due to spring strength, spring shape, or another factor is well beyond my understanding. I'm not aware of other cars with similar power and single disk clutch assemblies that suffer from this problem, so it is clearly possible to fix. My dealer contact's engineer friend seemed to indicate that Ford was working on a solution, but could be no more specific.

In the interim, I intend to remove the assist spring for my next track day and see what effect this has. The last time I ran, I had the halfway clutch and could not get 4th or 5th gear until the revs dropped, so it will be interesting to see if I get the lockout without the sticky clutch.

One of the reasons I sold my Caterham was that I got tired of doing all of my own development work and thought a mass market product designed by a major car company would be better. So much for that notion...

 

[VoodooBoss]

To help you get your head around my reasoning that they are not related, obviously they are all part of the clutch, with a normal clutch if the pedal is depressed half way will the clutch be partially disengaged? When fully depressed is it fully disengaged? The answer to both is yes. With the issues we're having in both of those scenarios the clutch is fully engaged. Many of us have had shifting lockout issues without the pedal sticking to the floor including me. I didn't have any issues with the pedal sticking until AFTER I installed my JHR clutch line. Not saying there's a cause and effect there but certainly the clutch line didn't help! I installed the clutch line because I was having shifting lock out not the pedal sticking to the floor. Now after I replaced my clutch the pedal did stick to the floor but I didn't miss any shifts other than when the pedal stuck to the floor. Since replacing my clutch I have not missed a single shift on the same tracks where I missed a lot of shifts with the stock clutch.

 

[Justin]

Sorry, Justin, I was not being clear. Bent diaphragm fingers refers to a style of finger that has a bent angle built into it, rather than being straight along it's entire length. The purpose of the bent finger is to prevent centrifugal force from causing release problems (like ours). The Centerforce has bent fingers. Could you post a picture of the diaphragm fingers?

Btw, I spoke with Centerforce, and they say their Mustang 5.0 DYAD clutch is for the 2011 Mustang. They don't say it won't work in the Boss, just that they don't know if it will fit. How did you determine it was a good match?

cause I knew that the 2011 and up 5.0 mustangs all share the same flywheel bolt pattern and input shaft. And by looking at other places that sell clutches and list the same part number for the GTs and Boss's

 

[athens7]

Justin, thanks for the reply.

Rick, I guess my thoughts on the two issues' interconnectivity are based on two ideas. First, there are very few parts involved in clutch engagement/disengagement. Second, the one element both problems share is high RPM. I can't see how the hydraulic system is affected by RPMs. It may be possible that there is a problem with the throwout bearing being able to act on the diaphragm spring at high rpm, but that's beyond my level of knowledge. Other than those, the only causes I could fathom would be either the clutch disk sticking to the flywheel, which would not be RPM dependent (more likely heat related), or the pressure plate not releasing the clutch disk, which comes back to the diaphragm spring.

It is interesting that your clutch sticking problems popped up after you installed the JHR line. Since most people seem to install this as a response to the pedal issue, why did you choose to install it? From my research, I see that larger openings in the hydraulic system reduce force. It makes sense that the larger line could have slightly reduced hydraulic force, exacerbating the sticking pedal problem. If this is true, it illustrates how even a fairly simple system is a delicate balance of multiple elements that can act either cumulatively or in opposition. Unfortunately, it also probably means that a simple fix from Ford for our problem(s) will be tougher to achieve, absent your solution of $$$ and aftermarket parts.

 

[VoodooBoss]

It's certainly possible they are related but my experience tells me they are two separate problems. I'm no expert on this, far from it actually, and I can only relate my personal experiences. Like you I read everything I could on this subject and is why I started this thread and poll. There was speculation that heat in the stock line was boiling the fluid and not allowing the TO to fully disengage the clutch. I quickly disproved that the line does nothing regardless what others have reported. For me I want to read experiences from guys taking their cars to road courses because that's where I have my problems. Another friends of mine that tracks his Boss with me is having the same issues and the new clutch line did not resolve his issues. He has not had nearly as much of a problem with the pedal sticking. He also removed his spring and hasn't had the pedal stick but is still having lock out. BTW I've had DOT 4 in my system all along as has my friend.

The clutch sticking issue could literally be just a poor design and removing the spring is the only solution.

For everyone I know Ford is reading this thread and I appreciate everyone keeping this civil and not turning it into a rant/biznitch session.

 

[06mach1]

Just a thought, but to me the clutch sticking to the floor at high RPM would be a centrifugal force issue. Depending on how the clutch is made and where the pivot point is on the release fingers, maybe the high rpm lets the weight of the fingers hold the clutch in a released position. When RPM comes down, the spring pressure on the fingers overtakes the centrifugal force being applied to the fingers and allows the clutch to be applied. Knock on wood, I have not had my clutch pedal stick to the floor. And when I track the car, whether at the drag strip or road course, I shift at the redline. The part I do not get though, is why do some cars have the issue and some do not?

 

[VTBoss302]

Knock on wood, I have not had my clutch pedal stick to the floor. And when I track the car, whether at the drag strip or road course, I shift at the redline. The part I do not get though, is why do some cars have the issue and some do not?

Ditto...

Just ask Fat Boss about his experiences with two different Bosses..

It's easy to point fingers:

Chinaman tranny...

Clutch...

Yada, Yada, Yada...

Production variations alone may account for the mystery or is it history???

 

[dscowan]

Spoke to local Ford Customer Care Manager and asked him to get to the bottom of my ongoing issues or told him I wanted Ford to take the car back bottom line. Said he spoke to the engineering folks at Ford HQ and they told him they were aware of the clutch/tranny issues and determined it was an issue with the clutch plate and that a new one was in the design stages but no time frames other than it would be addressed. So where does that leave us? who knows, Ford has replaced everything but the tranny already and I have had the car in numerous times for the same issues including having the clutch pedal stay down when aggressively shifting above 5k rpm's. I'll be a little more patient as I haven't had time to really get out in the car this summer, but to say that I have been extremely disappointed in this car would be a vast understatement. Car has 3,500 miles on it so it should be through most of the break in period for this kind of thing I would guess. Anyone else had any straight from the horses mouth feedback from Ford on this. Don't want to get the local ford dealer nailed with questions, but they have extensive experience with the bosses and other high end mustangs for what it's worth so I do trust what he is telling me, just not liking the time frames. One final thing, he offered to replace with aftermarket parts to fix issues, but I asked him what that does to my warranties and redress issues and he said probably void them, so no go there. Nice gesture but bigger picture issues precluded me from taking him up on it.

 

[VTBoss302]

Spoke to local Ford Customer Care Manager and asked him to get to the bottom of my ongoing issues or told him I wanted Ford to take the car back bottom line.

Sorry to hear about your issues...

Dunno whether or not FOMOCO will do the right thing here..

Only time will tell.

 

[unrealford]

I don't see how replacing factory clutch will Void Warranty, as it's a wearing item like brake pads.

 

[Jimmy Pribble]

It has been six weeks since I got approval for a new transmission and still no word on one being available. This isn't like waiting on a new heart. There should be dozens of these things laying around. So, I continue to believe that they are working on a fix, based on what my dealer told me (see previous post).

 

[VoodooBoss]

Anyone else had any straight from the horses mouth feedback from Ford on this. Don't want to get the local ford dealer nailed with questions, but they have extensive experience with the bosses and other high end mustangs for what it's worth so I do trust what he is telling me, just not liking the time frames. One final thing, he offered to replace with aftermarket parts to fix issues, but I asked him what that does to my warranties and redress issues and he said probably void them, so no go there. Nice gesture but bigger picture issues precluded me from taking him up on it.

I have heard as close to the horses mouth as you and yes Ford is well aware of the issues. From my understanding there have been a few others where Ford has agreed to pay for the labor if the owner wants to install an aftermarket clutch. You pay for the parts and Ford pays for the labor. If you go this route insist they replace the slave at the same time. My understanding is this won't void your warranty for other parts but obviously they won't warranty an aftermarket clutch.

 

[Justin]

I don't see how replacing factory clutch will Void Warranty, as it's a wearing item like brake pads.

yeah me either.......

 

[Domestic Product]

I have heard as close to the horses mouth as you and yes Ford is well aware of the issues. From my understanding there have been a few others where Ford has agreed to pay for the labor if the owner wants to install an aftermarket clutch. You pay for the parts and Ford pays for the labor. If you go this route insist they replace the slave at the same time. My understanding is this won't void your warranty for other parts but obviously they won't warranty an aftermarket clutch.

Yes this is true, my dealer installed my aftermarket clutch, flywheel, clutch line and Ford racing shift kit for free with the transmission rebuild under warranty. Very happy with Ford for doing so. So far its a different car works like advertised on and off the track.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Yes this is true, my dealer installed my aftermarket clutch, flywheel, clutch line and Ford racing shift kit for free with the transmission rebuild under warranty. Very happy with Ford for doing so. So far its a different car works like advertised on and off the track.

Which clutch did you go with??

 

[athens7]

Not surprisingly, my call to Ford's Customer Care line this morning resulted in a nice young lady telling me there was no indication in her computer system about a clutch problem on Mustangs. She was kind enough to document my concern.

I noticed this morning as I drove in to work that the clutch is chattering slightly on first gear take off. I first noticed this a couple of months ago, but attributed it to a rough road surface (it was VERY minor). This morning, though, the problem was unquestionably clutch related. As I think back, the start of this concern coincides with the start of my other clutch problems.

 

[isrboss]

Not surprisingly, my call to Ford's Customer Care line this morning resulted in a nice young lady telling me there was no indication in her computer system about a clutch problem on Mustangs. She was kind enough to document my concern.

I noticed this morning as I drove in to work that the clutch is chattering slightly on first gear take off. I first noticed this a couple of months ago, but attributed it to a rough road surface (it was VERY minor). This morning, though, the problem was unquestionably clutch related. As I think back, the start of this concern coincides with the start of my other clutch problems.

I didn't want to, but I had to be aggressive with the Ford CS when I had a certain issue. Just demand you speak to their boss (haha no pun intended).

 

[Boss #2452]

I have had trouble with the clutch pedal not immediately coming off the floor a few times...doesn't seem to affect me when shifting.

My car is at the dealership right now because I lost reverse gear after the gear shifter moved into the reverse gate while I was trying to complete a fast 2-1 downshift. This happened a couple times to me a couple weekends ago and then when I tried to reverse the car, there was no reverse. Service is trying to talk to Ford about warranty for the issue after I had to explain to the service manager that the one of the functions of the shifter is to prevent any engagement of the reverse shift fork while the vehicle is in forward motion and that the shifter clearly failed that function in this case. After my explanation he said he would talk to Ford. So...hopefully I don't have to get into a fight with Ford over this.

MGW shifter is definitely in my future.

 

[Domestic Product]

Which clutch did you go with??

I went with the McLeod RST along with their steel lightened fly wheel and clutch line. Add skip shift unplug, clutch assist spring removal, Ford racing shift kit, the ever so cool Ford racing shift knob and the car just feels right. On and off the track. If I had it to do over I would do the same except spend a couple hundred more and get the RXT it will probably last longer, but no complaints on the RST good for 700 hp. Ford even gave me a brand new stock clutch assembly with the stock fly wheel that's sitting in my garage when they did the warranty work. Guess I need to post it over on the for sale area.

 

[Fomoco302]

What was your total $$$$ outlay for all the parts ?