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Dark Horse OEM Pad wear per track day - does this sound Reasonable?
- Thread starterEricH
- Start date
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The Dark Horse handling package comes from the factory with 180 tw tires, but the pads are obviously meant to operate on the street. They do stop this heavy beast hard, though.
"Braking distances aren't as sexy as horsepower and acceleration, but if you're going to be fast, you need to stop fast. The Dark Horse has that covered. In fact, it out-brakes every production car we've ever tested. Its 86-foot 60-0-mph stop edges out the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS and 2016 Dodge Viper ACR by 1 foot.
That 86-foot stop wasn't an anomaly, either. In order, we recorded stops at 92, 91, 90, 88, 87, 90, 86, 89, 88, 90, 91, and 90 feet. The list of cars that match or beat the Mustang's longest 92-foot stop is dominated by Porsche but also includes giants such as the McLaren Senna, the Ferrari SF90 Stradale Assetto Fiorano, and the best Chevrolet Corvettes. It's clear from the results that the six-piston Brembo front calipers and two-piece rotors perform better with some heat in them and don't fade.
You might think that kind of eye-popping stopping power would be too aggressive anywhere but the track, but the Dark Horse maintains its status as a proper road-worthy sports car with superb pedal feel. The initial travel has a solid cushion that allows for smooth daily driving before stiffening up beyond that with a feel reminiscent of a booster-less stock car, only there's no extreme effort required. The Dark Horse feels at home on the track or street, just be aware of what's behind you before stomping that pedal—the Mustang is capable of out-stopping virtually everything else on the road."
2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse First Test: Putting Up Shelby GT500-Level Numbers!
We knew the Dark Horse was going to be awesome. We didn’t expect it to break a MotorTrend performance record.
I have a very good relationship with my Dealership so not only I was invited on the Dark Horse premiere when it lended in Bulgaria but was one of the first people to be able to do an extended test drive on a Dark Horse when they first come up into the country. The braking is exquisite and considering it was brand new car with virtually not bedded pads the performance was even more mind blowing. So yeah I have read the materials and the marketing. The question is how is the ABS handling ICE mode and again that comes down to programing and the S650s are totally different than the S550s and probably brakes are one of the reasons why a heavier almost the same horespower car is performing so much better in lap times (Throttle house video). But Again I wouldn't just go by marketing materials when it comes to my brakes.The Dark Horse handling package comes from the factory with 180 tw tires, but the pads are obviously meant to operate on the street. They do stop this heavy beast hard, though.
"Braking distances aren't as sexy as horsepower and acceleration, but if you're going to be fast, you need to stop fast. The Dark Horse has that covered. In fact, it out-brakes every production car we've ever tested. Its 86-foot 60-0-mph stop edges out the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS and 2016 Dodge Viper ACR by 1 foot.
That 86-foot stop wasn't an anomaly, either. In order, we recorded stops at 92, 91, 90, 88, 87, 90, 86, 89, 88, 90, 91, and 90 feet. The list of cars that match or beat the Mustang's longest 92-foot stop is dominated by Porsche but also includes giants such as the McLaren Senna, the Ferrari SF90 Stradale Assetto Fiorano, and the best Chevrolet Corvettes. It's clear from the results that the six-piston Brembo front calipers and two-piece rotors perform better with some heat in them and don't fade.
You might think that kind of eye-popping stopping power would be too aggressive anywhere but the track, but the Dark Horse maintains its status as a proper road-worthy sports car with superb pedal feel. The initial travel has a solid cushion that allows for smooth daily driving before stiffening up beyond that with a feel reminiscent of a booster-less stock car, only there's no extreme effort required. The Dark Horse feels at home on the track or street, just be aware of what's behind you before stomping that pedal—the Mustang is capable of out-stopping virtually everything else on the road."
2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse First Test: Putting Up Shelby GT500-Level Numbers!
We knew the Dark Horse was going to be awesome. We didn’t expect it to break a MotorTrend performance record.www.motortrend.com
We are just now figuring out the Dark Horse brakes, including what pads they use as OEM and whether the replacements are going to perform the same.
I also started a thread here and over at Mustang7g to see if anybody has experienced ice mode yet in the S650 platform. We'll see if we get any bites. There are not as many tracked S650s as S550s.
I hear you about marketing, though, and I agree.
But I am amazed by my brakes in real life. Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of performance sports car and racetrack experience for comparison. I just love these brakes.
I'm still wondering what the improvements would be with a different brake pad. Now I probably don't know what I don't know here, and would be happy to try something else if there was a good option, but it's pretty hard for me to find anything to complain about on these pads. Long life, great braking, no fade.
So an honest question is, what would the benefits be of a different pad, and what even would that be?
So an honest question is, what would the benefits be of a different pad, and what even would that be?
You are speaking to the wrong guy. The more experienced guys here will chime in. Basically, I am going to learn as I hit the track more and become a better driver that the brakes will no longer hold up to my soon to be gained improved driving skills.
You can see the operating temperatures for different pads at the manufacturer's site.
Hopefully by the time I get to this level Ferodo will be making pads for the S650, because these seem to be the easiest to swap out different street and track pads without a bunch of hassle.
(considering that I do not make it to the track at all in 2026, this day may be never for me . . .)
Right, that question was really open ended and directed towards the more experienced track folk, but I'd add specifically those with Dark Horse track experience (or the same parts).
My understanding is that people will swap out GLoc pads for street vs. track, but right now the only difference between my street and my track setup is I put the 4-point quick install harness in the car and put it in "Track" mode. If I have a longer period between track events or a long drive, I swap on the all seasons. Otherwise, the car is 100% a drive to the track, run it at the track, drive home car if I want it to be.
My understanding is that people will swap out GLoc pads for street vs. track, but right now the only difference between my street and my track setup is I put the 4-point quick install harness in the car and put it in "Track" mode. If I have a longer period between track events or a long drive, I swap on the all seasons. Otherwise, the car is 100% a drive to the track, run it at the track, drive home car if I want it to be.
- Thread starter
- #68
first track day yesterday with the full Gloc R12/R10 setup - felt good. got new pb and more consistent laps all day but thats probably just with more seat time. Not sure if I felt any difference with the track pads vs oems but I think the bottleneck at this stage would be tire grip. Unfortunately had to cut the day short with engine misfire on first laps in the afternoon when temps got up to about 80F and check engine light now on the dash.
How much fuel did you have in the tank and was it on or immediately following a left turn when it happened? At my favorite track there's a long sweeping left hander, and by 50% fuel at the end of that turn I would get a consistent misfire. It would clear up again once I was no longer turning left.
The initial workaround was to fuel it up before half a tank, and I then put in a KRM pump to try to correct that. We'll see how it does when I'm back next week, but all the reports I've read indicate it should fix the problem for me.
The initial workaround was to fuel it up before half a tank, and I then put in a KRM pump to try to correct that. We'll see how it does when I'm back next week, but all the reports I've read indicate it should fix the problem for me.
Just curious what tires you are running and whether you have plans eventually to upgrade for track days?
Also, what are you looking at with those codes? It looks like you have some sort of app on your phone?
- Thread starter
- #71
Tank was full (just topped off before session). I refuel after nearly every other session and always keep it above 50% on track. Misfire occurred at end of track's longest straight. I should have it on video so I'll see if I can post the clip in a bit. KRM pump solution would be nice!
This was 4th day of the season running michelin pilot sport 4s 275/255. My tentative plan was to learn the car on the smaller tires and then move up to larger wheels and tires once I felt that was the limiting factor. At this point just waiting for Apex wheels sale then plan to move to 19x10/11 staggered setup w/ 305/285 RE71RZ or similar. Until then I just plan to keep running the ps4s.
For the codes I was using OBDLink MX+ which I just leave plugged into the OBD port during track sessions and it has a nice mobile app that works well to read any codes.
This was 4th day of the season running michelin pilot sport 4s 275/255. My tentative plan was to learn the car on the smaller tires and then move up to larger wheels and tires once I felt that was the limiting factor. At this point just waiting for Apex wheels sale then plan to move to 19x10/11 staggered setup w/ 305/285 RE71RZ or similar. Until then I just plan to keep running the ps4s.
For the codes I was using OBDLink MX+ which I just leave plugged into the OBD port during track sessions and it has a nice mobile app that works well to read any codes.
Rev Limiter :? I would clear it and check if comes back. Always have a forscan ODB II with you in the car not sure if the new ones can clean errors via ODB though.
No desire to run a squared 11" set up with 305 all the way around?
That is my plan. I have a Dark Horse, but @krisk did the same with a GT.
That doesn't sound like the standard issue that the KRM pump fixes. Basically the stock pickup is on the driver's (left) side, and so in long sweeping turns when the fuel sloshes to the right, and there's starvation. At the end of a straight with a full tank doesn't match. Let us know what the issue ends up being.
FWIW, I am looking at Apex wheels when there is a sale as well, for both the weight reduction vs. stock (and thus improved handling from lower unsprung weight) and also so I can run a square setup and rotate the tires to get more track life out of them.
- Thread starter
- #75
Got a ford service appt for late next week to look at the check engine light- car will be resting in garage until then. before then I may look into Forscan to see if that can give me any other information as well. worth noting that on the same lap before the misfire the engine was pulling power as well- It wasn't really noticeable at the time, but looking back at the telemetry it's easy to see as the lap deltas climbed a lot during full throttle. video below - you can hear the misfire right before I cross the 'gatorade' bridge at around ~:24 timestamp.
Regarding future wheels and tires, ideally I'd love to have the square 19x11 setup and I've gone back and forth trying to decide between 10/11s up front. I like the 10's in theory because it's a direct fit and I wouldn't have to worry about strut clearance, not having enough camber, fender clearance, rubbing, running spacers, etc. vs. the 11s which sound like it's more of a headache to get everything to fit well. is the extra grip up front worth those possible headaches? If I was more mechanically inclined, I think it would be easier to accept and resolve those possible front fitment issues that could come with 11s, but I'm afraid it could be too much hassle.
Regarding future wheels and tires, ideally I'd love to have the square 19x11 setup and I've gone back and forth trying to decide between 10/11s up front. I like the 10's in theory because it's a direct fit and I wouldn't have to worry about strut clearance, not having enough camber, fender clearance, rubbing, running spacers, etc. vs. the 11s which sound like it's more of a headache to get everything to fit well. is the extra grip up front worth those possible headaches? If I was more mechanically inclined, I think it would be easier to accept and resolve those possible front fitment issues that could come with 11s, but I'm afraid it could be too much hassle.
I'm now at around 16-17 hours of track time with my Dark Horse. I believe the rears are finally ready to be replaced. I also think that I have a warped rear rotor. The left rear rotor doesn't look great, and once the brakes get hot, I'm getting a standard warped rotor pulsing from the back (and the intensity of the pulsing seems to increase with the brake temp).
I've tried to be careful about making sure that the brakes get cooled well before I stop the car, and after a track session I also make sure to park it with the car in gear, not using the parking brake. But, I've been working them hard, and I'm sure they would benefit from more venting. At least the rear rotors aren't too bad price wise on this car, but the fronts are pretty spendy. Still sticking with OEM for now.
Not sure when I'll get around to changing them, but will try to get some pictures and upload if I can.
I want to put braided stainless brake hoses and a braided stainless clutch hose on the car, so I'm going to get those ordered and do it all at the same time. I've got a bit until my next track day.
Oh, and tires. Think I need tires. Again.
I've tried to be careful about making sure that the brakes get cooled well before I stop the car, and after a track session I also make sure to park it with the car in gear, not using the parking brake. But, I've been working them hard, and I'm sure they would benefit from more venting. At least the rear rotors aren't too bad price wise on this car, but the fronts are pretty spendy. Still sticking with OEM for now.
Not sure when I'll get around to changing them, but will try to get some pictures and upload if I can.
I want to put braided stainless brake hoses and a braided stainless clutch hose on the car, so I'm going to get those ordered and do it all at the same time. I've got a bit until my next track day.
Oh, and tires. Think I need tires. Again.
Just an FYI - If it's anything like critical parts used on automatic transmissions, Ford most likely uses "directed sourcing" for brake pads and assigns part numbers covering not only the design level but supplier. This gives Engineering direct control over Purchasing on where replacement parts come from and insures authentic Ford Service Parts are identical to the OEM parts.
FWIW, I ran the stock GT PP pads (same brakes as the DH except for the two piece rotors in front) for my first couple track days. I replaced them before they wore out and went to G-Loc R10 in front and R8 in back. I ran 787 track miles, 28 HPDE sessions, with those pads and the front R10s had 4mm left and rears had 7mm when removed. I swapped to R16/R12 and I’m on my 6th set of front R16s and my 3rd set of rear R12s. I’m on my 3rd set of front rotors and 2nd set of rear rotors.
I’ve never had any issues with the brakes on my car other than shuddering due to pad transfer at one point. The most track miles I got out of a set of R16s was 873 and the fewest was 400. That 400 miles was from my last set of pads I installed right before the MCA 50th Anniversary at Road Atlanta. I started the three day event with brand new pads, and after 3 days the pads were at 1.5mm. The rear R12 sets have lasted 1,291 and 1,391 track miles. The current set has the 400 track miles from RA and is at about 5.5mm (half thickness gone).
As a note if you’re new to tracking. Check the brake dust boots. My fronts melted pretty quickly and I installed a set of high temp boots from OPMustang. Those held up a lot better and I got 2,682 track miles out of them before replacing with Frenkit high temp boots I’m running now. The rear OEM boots held up a little better, but I removed them once they melted/split. I haven’t been able to find replacement rear dust boots (OEM or aftermarket) so I run without any on the rear. I just clean the brakes out well after track days since I don’t have the boots. It’s not a big issue to run without dust boots for a track only car, but not a good idea for a street drive vehicle. That said you can replace an entire rear Brembo caliper for less than $300 last time I checked.
I’m headed to Road Atlanta tomorrow with a fresh set of R16s up front, so I’ll see if I can get more than 400 miles out of this set.
I’ve never had any issues with the brakes on my car other than shuddering due to pad transfer at one point. The most track miles I got out of a set of R16s was 873 and the fewest was 400. That 400 miles was from my last set of pads I installed right before the MCA 50th Anniversary at Road Atlanta. I started the three day event with brand new pads, and after 3 days the pads were at 1.5mm. The rear R12 sets have lasted 1,291 and 1,391 track miles. The current set has the 400 track miles from RA and is at about 5.5mm (half thickness gone).
As a note if you’re new to tracking. Check the brake dust boots. My fronts melted pretty quickly and I installed a set of high temp boots from OPMustang. Those held up a lot better and I got 2,682 track miles out of them before replacing with Frenkit high temp boots I’m running now. The rear OEM boots held up a little better, but I removed them once they melted/split. I haven’t been able to find replacement rear dust boots (OEM or aftermarket) so I run without any on the rear. I just clean the brakes out well after track days since I don’t have the boots. It’s not a big issue to run without dust boots for a track only car, but not a good idea for a street drive vehicle. That said you can replace an entire rear Brembo caliper for less than $300 last time I checked.
I’m headed to Road Atlanta tomorrow with a fresh set of R16s up front, so I’ll see if I can get more than 400 miles out of this set.
Those are good numbers. What braking differences did you observe with the R16/R12 pads?
I’m finishing up my season, and may be done with this car on track for the year. I don’t have exact numbers, but I think I’m at roughly 1600 track miles for the year. For pads I’ve replaced the fronts once and rears once. I replaced the rear rotors once, but I’m thinking now I likely didn’t need to. Front rotors still seem fine. The rears lasted a lot longer than the fronts, and I’ve had zero issues with braking.
One thing I did do was flush the fluid with Castrol SRF and put on braided stainless brake hoses all around. That improved the consistency of pedal feel, especially after I’d run a handful of sessions.
I’m finishing up my season, and may be done with this car on track for the year. I don’t have exact numbers, but I think I’m at roughly 1600 track miles for the year. For pads I’ve replaced the fronts once and rears once. I replaced the rear rotors once, but I’m thinking now I likely didn’t need to. Front rotors still seem fine. The rears lasted a lot longer than the fronts, and I’ve had zero issues with braking.
One thing I did do was flush the fluid with Castrol SRF and put on braided stainless brake hoses all around. That improved the consistency of pedal feel, especially after I’d run a handful of sessions.
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