S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

[Fabman]

Are the pad materials possibly causing the temp differentials? What does Pagid say?

I have an abs delete block and a proportioning valve, if I can’t get the abs working I’m going to delete it.

 

[Stangra]

I have an abs delete block and a proportioning valve, if I can’t get the abs working I’m going to delete it.

There's gotta be a cause and fix for the ABS, and when working properly it's a benefit.

 

[PatrickStapler]

I’m going to caveat this question with, I have no clue regarding all the late technology, but why would you want ABS on a race car? I would eliminate that immediately and only use the prop valve, but I drive a 56 year old car with absolutely no technology and way slower than you guys.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Those temps must be pretty close to what I get as well. With TC off the rear brakes pads and discs are lasting for ever. Would think the rear discs last at least 3 times longer then the fronts, if not more. Wonder if switching to a more aggressive rear pad would be worth it?? Probably not as the RS29 is a already a pretty fantastic pad.

That's the thing with the Pagids, they take a huge amount of heat.... but then the discs crack sooner... even though the wear is minimal. You have your fabbed 4" ducts right?

Not what you want to hear when you have nice 2pc disc$.

In may case, my pads cost considerably more the the OEM PP 15" discs

 

[Mad Hatter]

I’m going to caveat this question with, I have no clue regarding all the late technology, but why would you want ABS on a race car? I would eliminate that immediately and only use the prop valve, but I drive a 56 year old car with absolutely no technology and way slower than you guys.

Ye gads,.... the ABS is fantastic... lets you brake deeper into the curve and saves a HUGE amount of money on tires. All the cars i have seen that have removed their ABS for some odd reason or other, have instantly become uncompetitive. the modern brake pads are far to grippy to use without ABS.

That said, In the past have always installed an ABS off switch for work trucks for mud, gravel and snow. But those are very different conditions, and the latest ABS systems have gotten that down pat as well.

 

[Fabman]

Yes, I'd MUCH rather have it working...after we did the Coyote Swap it seem'd like I had all rear brake, the car wanted to spin out on heavy braking. We did some re wiring and the balance seemed pretty good for a minute there. Then we unplugged the 3v ECU which controls the ABS as a test and it went to way too much front brake, so something is going on. God knows I've had plenty of oil sloping all over the engine bay so its possible the ABS sensors or connections are coated with oil and not functioning properly. I have a new set of front and rear sensors on order and I'm going to clean the reluctors and give this one more shot. Stay tuned.

 

[Fabman]

You have your fabbed 4" ducts right?

Yup....its not a lack of airflow.

 

[Fabman]

Here are my 3" vs 4" brake plates...

 

[Fabman]

Here they are next to another brand of plates.
Nope....I don't think it's an airflow problem.

 

[Fabman]

Time for some fine tuning.
Since Bumpsteer changes with caster adjustments I waited until I finalized my alignment settings to run the graph.

 

[Fabman]

Okay, .020” in 2 1/2” of travel, that’s less than .010/inch. Perfect. I could get it closer to zero but I like some toe out on bump because the suspension compresses as it’s loaded and I don’t want it to go into toe in so we’ll stop here. I would have filmed this but I don’t have enough hands.

 

[Albino500]

Okay, .020” in 2 1/2” of travel, that’s less than .010/inch. Perfect. I could get it closer to zero but I like some toe out on bump because the suspension compresses as it’s loaded and I don’t want it to go into toe in so we’ll stop here. I would have filmed this but I don’t have enough hands.

View attachment 66623

What was the initial reading or is this it?

 

[Fabman]

While I have the rig out and coil over disconnected it’s a good time to check my camber curve. I checked it when I first assembled the car and it was 1*/inch which is more than I’d like to see. But as alignment settings were fine tuned the length of the upper control arm got longer, thereby affecting the camber curve. We now see about .65* of camber gain/inch or about 1.75 in 2” of travel. I’m still seeing the inside tire temps a little higher than I’d like so I’ll reduce the static camber again, adjusting both sides of the upper control arm to keep the caster and also bumpsteer unaffected.

 

[Fabman]

What was the initial reading or is this it?

It was toeing in .026 in 2.5” of travel initially.
Really close, but the wrong way. Adding just .090 of shim brought it from toe in to the perfect amount of toe out. That’s right, it doesn’t take much to go from sh*t to shinola. This is why I scoff at those who throw a bump kit on their car and proclaim: “I bump steered my car.” No you didn’t, you just f****d up the bumpsteer on your car and have no idea because you didn’t bother to check it properly.

And with that, I step down from my soap box.

 

[JDee]

It was toeing in .026 in 2.5” of travel initially.
Really close, but the wrong way. Adding just .090 of shim brought it from toe in to the perfect amount of toe out. That’s right, it doesn’t take much to go from shiznit to shinola. This is why I scoff at those who throw a bump kit on their car and proclaim: “I bump steered my car.” No you didn’t, you just f****d up the bumpsteer on your car and have no idea because you didn’t bother to check it properly.

And with that, I step down from my soap box.

Testify brother!!

 

[JAJ]

On the brake balance problem, I think you've got a master cylinder problem. The hydraulic balance is off - too much front, not enough rear. Later S197's had that fixed. You might need a late-model GT500 or Boss302 master cylinder to get the balance right.

 

[Fabman]

On the brake balance problem, I think you've got a master cylinder problem. The hydraulic balance is off - too much front, not enough rear. Later S197's had that fixed. You might need a late-model GT500 or Boss302 master cylinder to get the balance right.

I wondered about that….however I was confused when it seemed to go from too much rear to too much front….I assumed it was the valves in the ABS pump being uncontrolled and going whichever way it wanted…but not really understanding how the ABS in these cars work I am only guessing. What I do know is this sucks. Pretty damn sure about that. What’s a good source for a boss 302 master cylinder? I want to make sure I get the right thing, not just a “fits 2005 to 2014” one size fits all source. Also, are there any fitment issues? All the tube connections the same size?

 

[Fabman]

I've been looking at this but yeowch the price....

2011-2014 Ford Mustang Brake Hydraulics Upgrade System | KohR Motorsports

kohrmotorsports.com

 

[Albino500]

I wondered about that….however I was confused when it seemed to go from too much rear to too much front….I assumed it was the valves in the ABS pump being uncontrolled and going whichever way it wanted…but not really understanding how the ABS in these cars work I am only guessing. What I do know is this sucks. Pretty damn sure about that. What’s a good source for a boss 302 master cylinder? I want to make sure I get the right thing, not just a “fits 2005 to 2014” one size fits all source. Also, are there any fitment issues? All the tube connections the same size?

2005/mid2008 master cylinders have a different mounting bolt pattern than the mid 2008 to 2014 master cylinders as does the brake boosters. The brake boosters are different for the supercharged model Mustangs than the normally aspirated ones. JS

 

[Fabman]

2005/mid2008 master cylinders have a different mounting bolt pattern than the mid 2008 to 2014 master cylinders as does the brake boosters. The brake boosters are different for the supercharged model Mustangs than the normally aspirated ones. JS

So which do I want?