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S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

3,962
3,344
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W2W Racing
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20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Lol... maybe its telling you something!! those 8000 + rpm stints must be heating things up quite a bit. With the temp gauge you can see how much rpm affects the heat in the tranny. Whats one more gauge among all the others you already have :cool:. At least the XL is already plumbed and ready to go for a oil pump setup.
It started popping out of gear on the green flag so I’m not sure it’s heat related but you’re right, I need to look at RPM/heat. I am shifting this about 500 rpm or so higher than I was with the 3 valve. Anybody know what the max rpm these tranny shift at?
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
View attachment 66700


Interesting that it happened at the green flag. Where you north of 8000 rpm?
Every bit of 7900/8000. When talking to Tremec a couple weeks ago they said there were a couple different variants. One is a 11940 and the other is 11430. The case on this trans is definitely not the same as the old one, and neither is the shift mechanism. The selector and shaft inside are totally different parts....so these gearboxes are not all created equal.
 
546
684
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Time Attack
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Under 3 Years
SoCal
It started popping out of gear on the green flag so I’m not sure it’s heat related but you’re right, I need to look at RPM/heat. I am shifting this about 500 rpm or so higher than I was with the 3 valve. Anybody know what the max rpm these tranny shift at?
Initially you mentioned it was only popping out of 2nd and 4th - after watching the videos again, is that confirmed it’s only those 2 gears?

I’m wondering if the plastic shift rail pads are the issue. When I pulled mine apart with less than 2,000 miles, the plastic pads were showing significant wear marks where they contact the synchro sleeves. I don’t run anywhere near your RPM’s, which would only accelerate the wear even faster. Possibly not allowing the synchro sleeve to fully engage on the strut keys in the synchros?

Here’s the fix, but unfortunately it’s an internal job.

5C2DDEDF-526C-46D7-8543-B1515AC162EB.jpeg
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
View attachment 66700


Interesting that it happened at the green flag. Where you north of 8000 rpm?
Coming down the back chute at Sonoma you have to lift for a second and it would pop out of 4th. I'm not shifting there, just a momentary blip of the throttle makes it jump out of gear so its not all about shifting, heat or RPM. All I can do at this point is change the fluid to the Amsoil I had in the last trans and hope for a miracle. There is a long break after these next 2 laguna dates so I hoping I can nurse it till then.
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Initially you mentioned it was only popping out of 2nd and 4th - after watching the videos again, is that confirmed it’s only those 2 gears?

I’m wondering if the plastic shift rail pads are the issue. When I pulled mine apart with less than 2,000 miles, the plastic pads were showing significant wear marks where they contact the synchro sleeves. I don’t run anywhere near your RPM’s, which would only accelerate the wear even faster. Possibly not allowing the synchro sleeve from fully engaging on the strut keys in the synchros?

Here’s the fix, but unfortunately it’s an internal job.

View attachment 66706
There is some 3rd gear trouble as well but I can't swear if its popping out or just not going in to gear.
I'm going to have to pay closer attention at this next race. I just remember it not being in gear when it was supposed to be and upsetting the car, in several instances allowing cars to get by me and then having to chase them down and re pass them. It was super frustrating.

Then towards the end of the race the Oil catch can puked on the front tires and when I touched the brake it sent me careening off track, short cutting the corner and making me look like a total idiot.
So, tell me, what direction does a car go when you're turning left and you suddenly soak the tires with oil? STRAIGHT!
That's not a driver error, that's a mechanical issue. I am beyond frustrated with this thing right now.

Check it out:
This is the 5 quart oil catch can in front of the right front wheel......that mess is the dirt from the off track excursion stuck to all that oil dumping out of the breather tank....there is a pool of oil on the splitter and belly pan. It was running out the nose onto the front of the splitter when I pulled off track after the race. There is a 1" thick piece of aluminum box tubing at the trailing edge of the splitter there acting like a dam....that oil and dirt mess is an inch deep!

oil tank.jpg
 
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,670
2,171
Santiago, Chile
Since your category has no rules.... can you hang a pipe out the back for all that oil?? you can Fab up a oil slick or smoke screen!!! Well on the serious side, what does Shaun say about the oil??


When I added the cobrajet and all the other goodies, had to add a 1L catch-can but it only gets 50% full in one race. But 5 liters of oil sounds/is pretty scary.

Once a buddies car went to the track with a fresh Royal Purple oil change and he filled two catchcans in about 3 laps, turned out it was a counterfeit oil, But doubt that would happen in the US,
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Since your category has no rules.... can you hang a pipe out the back for all that oil?? you can Fab up a oil slick or smoke screen!!! Well on the serious side, what does Shaun say about the oil??


When I added the cobrajet and all the other goodies, had to add a 1L catch-can but it only gets 50% full in one race. But 5 liters of oil sounds/is pretty scary.

Once a buddies car went to the track with a fresh Royal Purple oil change and he filled two catchcans in about 3 laps, turned out it was a counterfeit oil, But doubt that would happen in the US,
Shaun says its just windage and is a common problem and that reducing the RPM wouldn't help much. I'm hoping the new valve covers work as advertised plus I pounded the guts out of the PCV so its just an open tube now and should help with that. It had a very tiny hole in it so one side wasn't really breathing, the whole engine had to breathe through the other valve cover. Also, we didn't drain the tank before the race so it had qualifying plus whatever else was in there already so it filled up quicker than it should have. I've not had this problem since I installed this tank so it must have had some oil in it from before.
 

racer47

Still winning after 30+ years
328
381
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
SE WI
It won't help you right now, but Liberty Gears in Michigan sells dog ring Tremecs. I'm sure its pricey and I don't know anything about the durability but getting rid of the syncros seems like the right direction. So if you plan on sending it out to get a rebuild or want to do it yourself, you may want to consider calling them and getting some info.

Good luck with the Porsches.
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
It won't help you right now, but Liberty Gears in Michigan sells dog ring Tremecs. I'm sure its pricey and I don't know anything about the durability but getting rid of the syncros seems like the right direction. So if you plan on sending it out to get a rebuild or want to do it yourself, you may want to consider calling them and getting some info.

Good luck with the Porsches.
Yup that’s the plan.
 
Wow!!!!, This racing today has really turned into a science with gauges, measurements, readouts and last but definitely not least tire knowledge.....I didn't forget the rubber Guru around here...Our own BS-1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......Fabman, you're a rocket scientist driving a Mustang......I'll stick to my cruising ways..................
 
3,962
3,344
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Wow!!!!, This racing today has really turned into a science with gauges, measurements, readouts and last but definitely not least tire knowledge.....I didn't forget the rubber Guru around here...Our own BS-1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......Fabman, you're a rocket scientist driving a Mustang......I'll stick to my cruising ways..................
Everything I'm doing today is pretty much the same as I was doing 30 years ago. Fortunately Physics and geometry haven't changed all that much. What does change is electronics and strategy, how we look at these things. Electronics is my weak area so no data collection etc. in my camp. Hell, I don't even have a tach that works. Just good old fashioned seat of the pants and stop watch tech. I'm leaving a lot on the table though but I only have a few races left this year and I probably will not continue this again next year so its a little late to start down that path now. The cost vs fun factor is way out of whack here and not worth the effort to field a good team. Plus the whining and rumor mill is gaining steam so this is where I step off. I didn't need this shiznit 30 years ago and I sure as hell don't need it now. Funny how over the years the cars get better and better but the people don't. You still have some great guys and talented racers, but still a host of morons and assholes.
Why in the hell did I think this would be any better in 2021? SMH.
 
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ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
878
915
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
Everything I'm doing today is pretty much the same as I was doing 30 years ago. Fortunately Physics and geometry haven't changed all that much. What does change is electronics and strategy, how we look at these things. Electronics is my weak area so no data collection etc. in my camp. Hell, I don't even have a tach that works. Just good old fashioned seat of the pants and stop watch tech. I'm leaving a lot on the table though but I only have a few races left this year and I probably will not continue this again next year so its a little late to start down that path now. The cost vs fun factor is way out of whack here and not worth the effort to field a good team. Plus the whining and rumor mill is gaining steam so this is where I step off. I didn't need this shiznit 30 years ago and I sure as hell don't need it now. Funny how over the years the cars get better and better but the people don't. You still have some great guys and talented racers, but still a host of morons and assholes.
Why in the hell did I think this would be any better in 2021? SMH.
I do hope you'll stay plugged in here. The experience is invaluable, but I can definitely relate...
 

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