S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

[2012-Boss]

I think the complaints are BS. You didn't crowd anyone and they should have seen you without any issues. My approach would be to review the video with the group's lead instructor and ask him to point out the issue (the video doesn't support any complaints). After reviewing the video, I would state that maybe the issue is people in a group they do not have the skill for and ask the instructor to drop them to HPDE3. In my argument to drop them to HPDE3, I would also point out NASA HPDE4 is open passing and is the last step to a TT license, provisional comp license, or comp school - so the ability to pass and be passed anywhere on a track is a basic prerequisite for group participation.

Basically, I am the guy that turns the argument back around on the complainers and instructors.... I have been know to make it clear to instructors they didn't belong in an advanced group and should stop complaining about passing or go to a lower group....

 

[Fabman]

I think the complaints are BS. You didn't crowd anyone and they should have seen you without any issues. My approach would be to review the video with the group's lead instructor and ask him to point out the issue (the video doesn't support any complaints). After reviewing the video, I would state that maybe the issue is people in a group they do not have the skill for and ask the instructor to drop them to HPDE3. In my argument to drop them to HPDE3, I would also point out NASA HPDE4 is open passing and is the last step to a TT license, provisional comp license, or comp school - so the ability to pass and be passed anywhere on a track is a basic prerequisite for group participation.

Basically, I am the guy that turns the argument back around on the complainers and instructors.... I have been know to make it clear to instructors they didn't belong in an advanced group and should stop complaining about passing or go to a lower group....

My initial response was about to be:
"Then maybe they need to find a new hobby"....and this is why I've learned to shut up.

 

[KazarS197]

If the shoe was on the other foot, I would take one look at that Mustang and think:
"That is obviously a race prepared car with an experienced driver, he SHOULD be way faster than I am, and good for him for doing a such good job of it".
But then....its always that other shoe that gets into trouble....

Make sure everyone you passed fills out this document.

 

[KazarS197]

Too bad you are on the other side on the world. I've seen the owners of Pitt Race join in the advanced group HPDE with their race prepped vipers. Same cars they run in the vintage races every year. You would have fun.

 

[PatrickStapler]

Maybe I missed it...WHY are you in HPDE?

From the passenger's seat, it appears you are the only advanced driver on the track.

 

[TMSBOSS]

If that was in Great Lakes region, it would have been a HPDE3 group, at best. The two days I did with them were fantastic. In HPDE 3 you practice single file restarts as well as double file restarts. After you have done it once, they add HPDE 4 students. These guys shot up the middle of the double file restarts to give you a taste of what you should be learning to do.
The group you were in looked like a Hot Hatch club on a Sunday drive. There in lies the differences within NASA regions. Some are extremely serious about teaching and learning the craft, others are a club with "Exclusive" memberships within the membership.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

noooo thats just albert. he is a character

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

Maybe I missed it...WHY are you in HPDE?

From the passenger's seat, it appears you are the only advanced driver on the track.

this was a shakedown for the revised suspension and new motor. also getting credit for being able to compete in nats this year at LS

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

here's my video from Sonoma. at the 4:55 mark you'll see some SUPER aggressive a**hole pass me on the right who is clearly driving too fast and made me feel like my pecker was of insufficient proportions...

oh wait, that was @Fabman

 

[KazarS197]

here's my video from Sonoma. at the 4:55 mark you'll see some SUPER aggressive a**hole pass me on the right who is clearly driving too fast and made me feel like my pecker was of insufficient proportions...

oh wait, that was @Fabman

Saw him in your mirror at 3:40. So rude coming up in you like that. I bet your feelings were hurt. He should have handed off a couple tissues when he went by.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

Saw him in your mirror at 3:40. So rude coming up in you like that. I bet your felling were hurt. He should have handed off a couple tissues when he went by.

def would have made all the difference with those tissues

 

[Fabman]

Maybe I missed it...WHY are you in HPDE?

From the passenger's seat, it appears you are the only advanced driver on the track.

I needed a shakedown of the car and also credit with NASA to qualify for nationals.

 

[Fabman]

noooo thats just albert. he is a character

Who’s Albert?

 

[Don Lariviere]

The miata problem was all his making. He had the corner, but checked up because he was scared. It's always fun when you show up at and run track day groups with a prepared car... I have been whined at may times. The SoCal NASA HPDE guys are way more fun! (and fast)

 

[funksouljon]

As a newer to cars, but have spent years flogging motorcycles (so we get a LOT closer), I see
1) You broke traction after going around the yellow Vette, thats "scary action close to my much more expensive Vette"
2) Did you see the blue WRX double brake check you up on his butt ?
3) I bet 311 said something as you went round him on the brakes into that tight right
4) At 9:36 I bet you startled that guy going around him on the outside under power
5) I bet white Miata that got pinched between you and the Red vette said something
6) That BMW was staring at you in his rear mirror and went wide on the left and then you went up the inside, loudly

I didn't even see the Miata with a wing that should be unhappy with the pass (I saw the car, but didn't see it).

You notice how many of those cars had tags mounted? For non-racers, that would have seemed loud, close and fast. You are "the big shot with the full race car trying to show everyone up." 1 person says "you see that mustang? he went by me quick and was loud, startled me." Next guy "yeah, he scared me too, loud AF". Now you are making scary passes.

I agree with the others, they are likely pushing people up through the ladder to make them feel like they are making progress. None of that seemed scary for people who are about to go full race.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

i see where youre coming from, but disagree. and sals car isnt honestly that loud.

 

[Boone]

I love sparking conversations. But what I meant to say was, "Way to go, Sal! Stick that sweet new splitter right up their arses!!!"

 

[Sjohnson1800]

Honestly I’m in like the middle class of hpdes and I would be so excited to see a car like sals on the track with me I would t even hesitate to give you a point by, and would be excited to hear that beast fly past me. So I don’t really understand these guys, if your doing hpdes your not a race car driver nor have a race car let the guy who’s trying to get a decent cheap test day in by, and get over it

 

[funksouljon]

i see where youre coming from, but disagree. and sals car isnt honestly that loud.

Now put yourself in a soft top.... And it doesn't have to be high decibels to approach and then be right at your window and then gone. The no sound and then extra sound in an instant as full throttle passes can make some folks jump.

Honestly I’m in like the middle class of hpdes and I would be so excited to see a car like sals on the track with me I would t even hesitate to give you a point by, and would be excited to hear that beast fly past me. .........

Ditto. But not everyone thinks that way.

 

[Dave_W]

I'll start by saying I'm just an autocrosser. It looks like the white winged Miata thought you were going to dive-bomb him on the entry into T2, opened his hands back up, braked a bit more, and let you have the apex. But, from watching all the other passes you made, I think your intention was to pass under him as he exited the corner, same as with several other cars you passed. So just a misunderstanding. May have been avoided if your line into the corner was a bit more left (more directly behind him), but that's really not your problem.

If the red 'vert Vette complained, I don't know what for. He clearly gave you a point-by and you passed him cleanly. Based on his speed through T2 just before that, where the Miata following had to check up to avoid running into him, I'm thinking he may need to be re-evaluated for the group. But that's just me.

I thought you were pretty courteous to the yellow Vette early on in the session, waiting until after the corner and passing inside as he tracked out.

There were 2 places that I thought about, and I don't think they were "bad" passes, just where you might have startled someone. One is at 9:30, where you pass the grey econobox on the outside - if he was thinking of tracking out to the wall he may have thought you blocked him from doing so. The other is passing the train of cars into T7 - the last Miata you get alongside (and maybe ahead of) just before turn-in, so he should see you, but if his situational awareness is not good he may have considered that a dive-bomb move. Especially if he doesn't understand the capabilities of your car. Which may actually be where some of the negative comments come from - the drivers being passed know the capabilities of their car (and their driving), but not how much more capable yours is (and your driving), so the moves you're making would be at (or over) the ragged limits of their car & skills and therefore become "dangerous" in their minds. To which I'd say, "Get over it."

And if I did an HPDE with you in the group passing me like that, I'd be thrilled. I'd be watching your lines & trying to keep up as best I could, which would probably be all of 1 or 2 corners.