GTD Curb Weight Released

[Mike_FL]

agree with this video, should have some fancy carbon seats especially for the $$$ it costs

 

[rxsamg]

Sad thing is the value might not hold as much if the cheaper ZR1 beats it on the track. Will be interesting to see its track numbers. The ZR1 already beat a record at VIR I believe. Don’t get me wrong, I’m die hard Mustang but I think they really overpriced/underhorsepower’d it against some serious Corvette competition.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Its funny when we can say 800p is underpowered..... But looking at the ZR1, its lighter, its more powerful.... and its cheaper. Maybe Ford should have made a better effort.

 

[Tob]

There is so much to talk about with respect to this car. First off, I respect the effort and am glad Ford made the attempt. The sad part is that Ford didn't do it in house like Chevrolet did. Having to pay Multimatic helped to make it a reality but also was a large contributor towards a rather high price point. I was told that Ford originally planned to be around 285k which then got bumped to 300k by the time of that first little get together where the coins were handed out. Not long after that, entry price jumped to 325k. It's now over 400k when loaded up along with sales tax. Ouch.

The engine. The quickest way to 800+ was to use the already developed GT500/Raptor R engine. I love it in my GT500 but I readily admit that GM definitely took the powertrain to a much higher level of sophistication, along with a serious power advantage over Ford.

The weight - sigh... Ford elected to not do a CF chassis along with requisite crash testing, etc. No doubt that would have pushed the price point even higher (500k? 600k?). I laud Multimatic for their effort on the suspension and getting it done within the S650 framework. Along with the weight, the car was going to need a serious amount of rubber, which it got. They made a fatty dance at the Ring, and deserve a major kudos for that. But Ford's decision to hide the weight instead of getting ahead of it with the public... a major fail in my book. GM has been transparent about everything with the ZR1. Ford, has chosen to play games with NDA's and secrecy. This does nothing but piss people off. Who chose to go this route? Farley? Owens? Both? Others? Who stood up and voiced disagreement with that route? We'll likely ever know. Bottom line - it was a big mistake. So I'm happy to expose the weight with the hopes that it squeezes Ford to be more open and honest about the reality that is the GTD. It's a great effort but due to budgetary constraints the car ends up heavy as sh*t and has to make do with one arm tied behind its back.

What shocks me most is that Ford has no serious track version. Stripped, yet street legal with only one focus - the track. Void of any luxury items and more in line with the GT3 car that it wishes to emulate. Ford has seemingly missed the mark in a multitude of categories while GM has nailed it in almost every respect. I have never wanted a GM product before, ever. But given the choice, I would take a ZR1 over a GTD in a heartbeat and I don't say that just to disrespect the effort from Ford/Multimatic. I hate to say it but the ZR1 is putting the GTD to shame and I wish that wasn't the case.

 

[biggsy]

@Tob thanks for that.

Do you think it’s fair to say that the GTD is more of an afterthought?

As I’m sure you know, cars ran in GT classes have to be based off of a production car.
I feel like Ford wanted to enter the GT3 level class again so they put everything into the race car and the GTD was more of an “and oh, by the way…”. Chevy didn’t have to do that because their GT3 car is based off the Z06.

 

[Tob]

The Dark Horse was what was used as a submission for GT3 homologation. Afterthought? Unless he was just playing dumb, as if it wasn't already planned, it was Farley (allegedly) that originally pondered the very idea of a GTD.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638350246643212290

Again, I love the effort from Ford and Multimatic. I just think they needed a room full of us to steer them in the right direction.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

My perspective on this is they found the limits of the rental car chassis with the GT500. They spent a ton of money adding tire and shocks and aero and didn’t get as much as they hoped. She’s just too big boned.

It’s hard to compete with purpose designed sports cars.

I love that Ford did the GTD, and if I had the money to not stress about it I’d have bought one to reward the behavior. But I don’t and I didn’t.

 

[rxsamg]

I would have had a greater appreciation for the GTD if it was more real-world priced. The weight factor would not have been as much of, well, a factor. But given the "exotic" unattainability of the price, it becomes a non-issue to the 99% of us. I heard rumors of a supposedly "budget" version of the GTD to be released, but doesn't make sense given the expected Boss/Cobra/something version that is supposed to be released in the next year or two. For me, 4 years ago I had not even a slight thought that I would be owning a GT500. But here we are (and I don't regret it one tiny bit) To me the $80-$120k price range is the sweet spot for serious enthusiasts who would actually track their car & not become a garage/show queen. I seriously question how many owners will throw their GTD's around a track at anything more than parade speeds. And is the engine any more exotic than the one in my 4200lb car? Nope...just retuned for a few extra horses. Surely the transmission is far superior...nope similar DCT with an extra gear. Where is all the money going? The Multimatic suspension & body parts. Is the performance of that car worth an extra $320k from what I paid....nope, at least I think from the perspective of the average Mustang owner who tracks their car. Tell me if I'm way off base on this? The GTD is definitely an afterthought to the racing program & simply a halo car like the Ford GT. I'd love to see some of it's tech trickle down to more attainable versions. But the massively lagging sales of the S650 are concerning to the future of Mustang. One of the biggest reasons...pricing it out of the targeted audience.

Looking at the competition, I like the idea of the Corvette Z06 (it's in that $ sweet spot) , but irony is a buddy of mine sold his GT500 after tracking it for a few years, decided to buy a Z06, tracked it a few times, hated the feel of the chassis/brakes, within a few months sold it. I had a chance to chat with him about it & it really surprised me. Pretty much everything I've read about the car (on paper so to speak) should make it superior in virtually all aspects on the track. Previously if I had ever thought of selling my 500 (which is a hell of a longshot) the Z06 was my potential go to. Now, not so much. Albeit only 1 person's experience. The unbiased areas of the car media weren't very enamored with the base C8 chassis when it was released (from what I recall) But they've been happy with the Z06. I love the idea of the ZR1's power vs the GTD and the fact it's expected to be decently under 4000lbs, but only if it's an enjoyable car to track for the average weekend warrior. Only caveat is the price again is out of reach to most enthusiasts. I can't imagine anyone is going to get their hands on one under $200-250k perhaps more, and to those owners, are they going to throw them around the track?

I know this post is a bit off the topic of the weight, but it is kinda funny how vested we are all in the GTD, hoping it will outshine the competition & respect it's performance, yet unlikely will ever own/drive one. Is it brand loyalty? Is it respect for performance? It's a pipe dream for me, but for any of you who will, let me take it for a spin please

 

[Dave_W]

The engine. The quickest way to 800+ was to use the already developed GT500/Raptor R engine.

The twin-turbo 3.5L V6 in the latest version of the Ford GT is also "targeted to deliver more than 800 horsepower" though admittedly that's in a "track-only" model.

While I'm at it, I'm also frustrated with Ford for not putting the Multimatic DSSV dampers on anything but nearly-unobtainable cars. GM puts them on Camaros and trucks. Wouldn't it have been nice for the Dark Horse or Mach 1 Handling Pack to have included DSSV struts & shocks?

 

[JDee]

The twin-turbo 3.5L V6 in the latest version of the Ford GT is also "targeted to deliver more than 800 horsepower" though admittedly that's in a "track-only" model.

While I'm at it, I'm also frustrated with Ford for not putting the Multimatic DSSV dampers on anything but nearly-unobtainable cars. GM puts them on Camaros and trucks. Wouldn't it have been nice for the Dark Horse or Mach 1 Handling Pack to have included DSSV struts & shocks?

Does it really need it? The thing seems pretty well sprung and damped to me, my car has the handling package. Those DSSV dampers would jack up the already too high price to seriously bad levels. I'd be happier to see it go on a big weight reduction diet, it is a heavy turd of a car. My Mach 1 had some tubing/wiring running into the shocks, I often wondered what that was about? Some kind of quasi DSSV implementation?

But, on the plus side for the DH, I got a black painted roof, blue calipers, and a hood stripe with a "tarnished" accent, whatever the hell that is. Wow! Talk about speed stuff, that's definitely going to take a couple tenths off of lap times.

Seriously, about the only good thing about the DH is that they didn't make a lot of them and it might just have some extra value down the road for the scarcity of them. I read somewhere they were only making 5,000 or so of them, enough for each dealer to get 2 or something like that. Which makes it much scarcer than a 'vette, they build 55,000 of them a year.

From the limited driving I've done with mine, I think it is a mighty fine boulevardier car. Not certain yet if it's going to be a mighty fine track car.

 

[FastEd]

Your Mach I would have Magneride dampers if it has the Handling package option.

 

[JDee]

The Mach 1 did have the handling package option, and so does my Dark Horse. That was a $6495 option on the DH.
I'm not sure if it's got those tubes/wires running into the shocks, it's up on a lift for the winter.

 

[JDee]

I found some verbage online (courtesy of Google's AI thing which the luddite in me doesn't trust at all) that said that the Dark Horse Handling Package, which my car has, includes Mag Ride and camber plates. I don't recall seeing either of those things, but I also don't recall actually checking. I only had the car 1 week before winter came and it got put away.
Once we get dig out of the worst winter in recent memory I'll bring it down and have a look see. My Mach 1 with Mag Ride also was supposed to have plates, and it didn't, I put aftermarket plates in.
I find with Ford us Canadians often get different stuff than is on US cars, so I'm not real sure what the deal is.

 

[FastEd]

DH handling pkg has Magneride as well … that’s part of why the option pack is $$ but worth it. Two great cars you have there sir!

 

[Mad Hatter]

I just came back from the shop I go to. Made me think: for 100 grand you could make a very quick S550 that would rival the GTD. Was watching them build a 1500hp mustang with a pair of turbos and all the computer tech to leave it road worthy. To not be too crazy, lets say the latest greatest suspension, fat tires and maybe 900hp of dependable power, in a car that ways 1700kg.. oh boy. And! if you throw on another 100 grand you could go crazy in carbon fiber a drop the weight to 1500kg.. what a bargain!!

 

[Ewheels]

Not sure what Steve Luca has spent on his GT500 but I'm sure it is faster than a GTD.

I suppose one could argue that the GTD would be more reliable...plus a warranty.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Turbos would be great because you have so much more tunability and less stress on the crank.

It’s going to be tough to match that suspension and moving the DCT to the back is nice and not easy to do though.

 

[Mad Hatter]

True, but even the super nice transmision layout is hampered by a 1/2 ton of fat. That has got to hurt the lap time advantage of all the high tech that went into the car.

 

[stevbd]

@Mad Hatter your signature seems appropriate to this discussion lol.

 

[yotah1]

Remember when Nissan showed the new GTR, and everybody said it's too heavy. Well, remember when they went to the Nurburgring with it and absolutely destroyed the competition?