GTD Curb Weight Released

[Mad Hatter]

@Mad Hatter your signature seems appropriate to this discussion lol.

Yup! Pigs....

and then again...

 

[Mad Hatter]

Remember when Nissan showed the new GTR, and everybody said it's too heavy. Well, remember when they went to the Nurburgring with it and absolutely destroyed the competition?

True... but the GTD is not all wheel drive. For the price it should be though.

 

[Mike_FL]

Remember when Nissan showed the new GTR, and everybody said it's too heavy. Well, remember when they went to the Nurburgring with it and absolutely destroyed the competition?

Porsche accused Nissan of cheating with that GTR lap time

 

[Tob]

Remember when Nissan showed the new GTR, and everybody said it's too heavy. Well, remember when they went to the Nurburgring with it and absolutely destroyed the competition?

Fat cars can indeed be taught to dance at the Ring, no doubt about that.

It wouldn't be fair to pin you down on the topic at hand but I just wanted to comment on some of the things said here...

Anthony Colard: designer des Mustang GTD et GT3 - Pony 'N Snake

Peux-tu nous dire qui tu es ? d'où viens-tu ? tes études et expériences ? Je m’appelle Anthony Colard, je suis actuellement Design Manager pour les programmes Ford Performance (majoritairement Motorsport) chez Ford à Detroit.Je suis français, émigré aux USA depuis 8 ans, et j’ai un Master en...

ponynsnake.com

"there are a few things I would have liked to be able to offer in a vehicle of this type that ultimately didn't leave the drawing board. But you can't have everything!"
The best details are often those that are unspoken. I enjoy hearing about goals that weren't met or the failures, and the decisions made to work them out to get what you want in the end. With respect to weight, no doubt everyone involved understood that given a number of constraints (budgetary, price point, manufacturing limitations) that the car was going to be, shall we say, rubenesque. Given where we are now, I hope a lesson was learned that it may be a better choice to share things such as how heavy the car is, early on, as opposed to keeping it quiet until the last minute because of a perceived negative impact. Not sure who made that decision but I couldn't disagree with it more. Get the weight out there early, stay the course, and then impress everyone with how well it can do at the Ring (ala, the GTR you mentioned) and you become distant from its shadow.

"My extreme version? I'm a track racer at heart, so it would be much more radical, with less electronics and much more focused on the driver and his experience, with a really low car all the time with a simpler suspension setup but fully adjustable to the smallest detail to suit everyone's driving style. I would also have removed any "useless" system like GPS & hi-fi."
Can I cast my vote for GTD 2.0 to be just that? If I have to hypnotize Farley with my epic techniques de danse and my manière convaincante I'm ready to convince him we want a more track potent version that is void of luxury. Some real seats (lightweight and fiber), an Aim-style dash, and the suspension you describe.

 

[Dave_W]

Wait, isn't the GT-D supposed to be the street version of the GT3? So if you want a track version of the GT-D, that means you want the GT3, right?

 

[WItoTX]

Thanks for posting, I had been awaiting this number, glad someone did the hard work to find it!

 

[yotah1]

Porsche accused Nissan of cheating with that GTR lap time

They did, they also put their driver, Walter Rohrl, in the car, and he couldn't replicate the laptime. So Nissan went back, and invited everybody to be there when they actually went even faster, with a car which was stock. It's just good engineering. But it pissed off a lot of people and reset some expectations.

Wait, isn't the GT-D supposed to be the street version of the GT3? So if you want a track version of the GT-D, that means you want the GT3, right?

Well, yeah, if we could drive a GT3 on the road, but who really wants that?
I tend to think more of GTD like the 911 GT3, even though it actually competes more with the GT3RS. But I still think there could be a more "RS"-like version of the car somehow.

 

[Ewheels]

Now that I think of it, I'm shocked the GTD was able to complete a single lap at the Ring. Many people complain the GT500 can't complete a 30 min session.....the GTD has even more power, more weight, and the same 16 gal tank.

 

[Mike_FL]

Will be interesting to see how a GTD handles a full track day at the ring. That weight is going to take its toll on the fuel/tires/brakes.

Remember once during a private track day there the organizer told the gtr drivers not to go for more then 3 hot laps as they would struggle to make it back for fuel (I hope he was joking)

 

[Fabman]

Should be able to pick up totaled GTD's in the junk yards pretty soon.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Will be interesting to see how a GTD handles a full track day at the ring. That weight is going to take its toll on the fuel/tires/brakes.

Remember once during a private track day there the organizer told the gtr drivers not to go for more then 3 hot laps as they would struggle to make it back for fuel (I hope he was joking)

You can lap a stock 20+ GT500 in Florida in summer until the tank runs dry (which admittedly doesn’t take too long).

I feel pretty certain the GTD will be just fine from a track readiness perspective, though it was a miss if they didn’t make the fuel tank bigger.

 

[cholmes1]

I will never own one so my opinion is just that, but the weight is a huge failure on Ford’s part. If 4000+ lbs is factual, initial EPA numbers are often inflated, Ford missed the mark. How was <3500 lbs not the goal?!?

There is a reason so many covet the Porsche RS models, McLaren’s, or, for those more fortunate, the Gordon Murray cars. Low weight. It’s pretty easy to make engine power today, but much harder for non-engineers to cut out the annoying nannies that keep adding weight and ruin a real drivers car.

Ford can do what they want with the handling and continue to hype the lap time that is likely to improve, but 4000+ lbs is 4000+ lbs and it will struggle to be anything more than a fat car that’s well dialed in for spirited driving. The best in-house comparison seems to be the 2021 Ford GT Carbon Series that tipped the scales at just 3054 lbs. That should have been the approximate goal. Both are two seaters that feature race technology and are heavily reliant on carbon fiber.

The GTD is a beautiful car but the weight shows it was certainly intended more as a statement/parts homologation and less as a ‘race car for the road.’ The Porsche GT3 RS and new ZR1 (with those same comforts and nannies) will walk the GTD on the track if for no other reason; power to weight.

 

[Stan Whitney]

GT500's burn at around 2mpg at full chat on track, the GTD should be about the same as the tuneup to 800hp is minor. So a lap at the ring would be 6-7 gals. You could get 2 laps at that rate.

 

[WItoTX]

GT500's burn at around 2mpg at full chat on track, the GTD should be about the same as the tuneup to 800hp is minor. So a lap at the ring would be 6-7 gals. You could get 2 laps at that rate.

It depends on so many variables though...my car in the winter does 3 sessions on a tank. Summer, 1.75 sessions at best. Then the tires overheat in the summer, so it kind of works out.

 

[Mike_FL]

The ring obviously has massive elevation changes and periods where you’re at WOT for extended amount of time compared to other tracks

 

[Ewheels]

I will never own one so my opinion is just that, but the weight is a huge failure on Ford’s part. If 4000+ lbs is factual, initial EPA numbers are often inflated, Ford missed the mark. How was <3500 lbs not the goal?!?

There is a reason so many covet the Porsche RS models, McLaren’s, or, for those more fortunate, the Gordon Murray cars. Low weight. It’s pretty easy to make engine power today, but much harder for non-engineers to cut out the annoying nannies that keep adding weight and ruin a real drivers car.

Ford can do what they want with the handling and continue to hype the lap time that is likely to improve, but 4000+ lbs is 4000+ lbs and it will struggle to be anything more than a fat car that’s well dialed in for spirited driving. The best in-house comparison seems to be the 2021 Ford GT Carbon Series that tipped the scales at just 3054 lbs. That should have been the approximate goal. Both are two seaters that feature race technology and are heavily reliant on carbon fiber.

The GTD is a beautiful car but the weight shows it was certainly intended more as a statement/parts homologation and less as a ‘race car for the road.’ The Porsche GT3 RS and new ZR1 (with those same comforts and nannies) will walk the GTD on the track if for no other reason; power to weight.

You know, when you put it that way, $300k-$400k is certainly carbon chassis territory and the fact that he GTD still uses a steel rental-car frame is pretty darn disappointing. If I had the money for a $300k car, it would be a GT3RS without a doubt.

I get it though, a lot of the price comes from its ultra-rarity and the target audience here has the kind of money where you don't look at price tags anymore. Those of us looking at this as "what you get for the money" were never meant to be potential customers.

 

[Tob]

initial EPA numbers are often inflated

Not sure how you reached that conclusion. The data submitted to the EPA came from Ford with the expectation that it is legitimate. It would make no sense to inflate the weight number. The only way it could vary, and by a very small amount at that, is if you option (or don't option) content that includes a fiber panel.

the 2021 Ford GT Carbon Series that tipped the scales at just 3054 lbs. That should have been the approximate goal. Both are two seaters that feature race technology and are h

Should have been the goal but it would seem that budgetary constraints didn't allow for a fiber tub in the Mustang. So the GTD had one arm tied behind its back almost immediately when Ford decided to run with the program.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

GT500's burn at around 2mpg at full chat on track, the GTD should be about the same as the tuneup to 800hp is minor. So a lap at the ring would be 6-7 gals. You could get 2 laps at that rate.

Yes- unless they replace the comically small Mustang gas tank with something bigger.

 

[Fabman]

You could build one hell of a track day car for half that and add a truck and trailer too.
Yes its cool, but how many of these are we going to see in the wild?
How many owners are going to an HPDE with it?
How many owners are going to use 1/2 the potential of this thing?
I know I'm coming from a broke dick racer perspective but, unless you have unlimited dollars to spend on toys this thing is just a waste.
A race car is a race car and a street car is a street car. A guy that can afford one of these can certainly afford both and a truck to tow it with.

 

[Ewheels]

You could build one hell of a track day car for half that and add a truck and trailer too.
Yes its cool, but how many of these are we going to see in the wild?
How many owners are going to an HPDE with it?
How many owners are going to use 1/2 the potential of this thing?
I know I'm coming from a broke dick racer perspective but, unless you have unlimited dollars to spend on toys this thing is just a waste.
A race car is a race car and a street car is a street car. A guy that can afford one of these can certainly afford both and a truck to tow it with.

Well we know @treynor is getting one and we also know he will use every available ounce of performance it has to offer so at least we will get to see some lap videos of it doing what it was meant for.