Help me choose!

[jtarozzzi]

Hey everyone I am new to this forum. Ive been tracking miatas for almost 2 years now and im wanting to graduate from the little toy car to an actual car. Ive been looking at 2018+ mustangs. What would be better a brand new or used pp2 mustang or a pp1 or even a base mustang with jrz coilovers and some new wheels and tires. What would be cheaper in the long run? new pp2 mustangs go for around 47-50k while a base mustang can be had around 35k. sounds like a base with jrz coils and new wheels and tires would be cheaper then a pp2, but would a base with Jrz coils and wheels/tires out perform a pp2?

Thank you

 

[302BOB]

When you buy a new car, it loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot. A used, not abused find would be the better way to go in my opinion I think you know the way to go.

 

[JDee]

IMHO, PP1 option on a base Mustang GT is the way to go. PP2 has a lot of stuff on it that you can get cheaper and/or better from the aftermarket (wheels/tires for example) whereas the PP1 has the 2 most important things you need for a track car, the 6 piston Brembos and a Torsen diff. Then you put the complete Ford Racing FR3 track suspension on that car and lock out or replace all the rubber bushings in the suspension, Vorshlag brake deflectors or 3" hose cooling, 11" square lightweight rims, 20mm front spacers, 305/30 track rubber and you have a potent track weapon that will put a big smile on your face. There's other stuff, but that's the fundamentals.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I would look closely at what is included in a PP2 and base level cars before making my decision. Also look at what will be needed regarding stopping, cooling and reliability.

The Miata is a great light weight track car that should have been my first track car, oops. They handle and stop well. Speed....not so much.

With speed you will have to produce and remove heat to perform. What does the PP2 have regarding cooling of the engine/oil, brakes, trans and diff? What will you need to add to a PP2 or standard model? How fast do you want to go? Will you be doing the mods personally, paying a technician or buying the complete package??

What will you be doing with the car?? HPDE, TT, W2W etc.?

If you can fill in some of the blanks. We surely can give you advice on going broke.........I mean going faster safely. LOL.

BTW Welcome to the site.

 

[jtarozzzi]

I would look closely at what is included in a PP2 and base level cars before making my decision. Also look at what will be needed regarding stopping, cooling and reliability.

The Miata is a great light weight track car that should have been my first track car, oops. They handle and stop well. Speed....not so much.

With speed you will have to produce and remove heat to perform. What does the PP2 have regarding cooling of the engine/oil, brakes, trans and diff? What will you need to add to a PP2 or standard model? How fast do you want to go? Will you be doing the mods personally, paying a technician or buying the complete package??

What will you be doing with the car?? HPDE, TT, W2W etc.?

If you can fill in some of the blanks. We surely can give you advice on going broke.........I mean going faster safely. LOL.

BTW Welcome to the site.

the only difference between the pp1 vs pp2 seems to be just magneride. I wanna go FAST FAST, Im tryna put them porsches and vettes at laguna seca back in their kakis and tennis shoes. all jokes aside Yes I will be doing all the work myself, and mostly just casual HPDE days

 

[TMSBOSS]

Cool. I try to do all the work on my cars also.

Its hard to justify $15k for shocks. Although Blacksheep can hook you up with shocks at that price. Just don't mention Watts Links. LOL

Would a car with sticky tires and shock/strut upgrades beat a "P" car? Anyone out there have one and have any success? What did you have to do to get there?

 

[blacksheep-1]

The coil over thing....anything remotely decent will run your over about $6K and will require rebuilding every 20K miles. With regards to the Penskes, yep they are over $10K, but when we had a shock problem at the runoffs who were the only shock guys there complete with a shock dyno and rebuild services?... Penske

 

[Roushdude]

Hey everyone I am new to this forum. Ive been tracking miatas for almost 2 years now and im wanting to graduate from the little toy car to an actual car. Ive been looking at 2018+ mustangs. What would be better a brand new or used pp2 mustang or a pp1 or even a base mustang with jrz coilovers and some new wheels and tires. What would be cheaper in the long run? new pp2 mustangs go for around 47-50k while a base mustang can be had around 35k. sounds like a base with jrz coils and new wheels and tires would be cheaper then a pp2, but would a base with Jrz coils and wheels/tires out perform a pp2?

Thank you

I would echo JDee's comments. It also depends on if you enjoy purchasing aftermarket parts and designing your own ride. I bought a brand new Roush four years ago before I knew any better and now that I know what I know, I would have bought a base GT and upgraded it my way.

 

[byronj]

Oh good luck down this rabbit Hole. I’m in the peninsula. Maybe we can meet at an events

 

[Dave_W]

The base GT has the "reverse flow" brake rotors, right? Upgrading those are a must-do before hitting the track. Info in the Vorshlag S550 build thread. Actually, just watch the video, starting at the S550 info -

"I don't know who at Ford thought this was a good idea, but he's an idiot."

Terry talks about hearing from the "idiot" in part 2. "This rotor - directly from the engineer that designed the system - should never be used on a track car." Pay attention to the info on brake master cylinder (and booster) change needed if upgrading the base GT brake to the PP brakes.

 

[modernbeat]

One of the issues with the base model car is that it's really not setup for performance. We had to modify the radiator shroud, add a better oil cooler and eventually add all the PP1 and PP2 front lip, undertray and lower bracing parts to the Vorshlag test car. It was a hassle. But since we planned on using aftermarket parts for EVERYTHING performance related, we went that route. You can read the build thread where we went though many different brake and suspension combinations.

Vorshlag 2018 Mustang GT + S550 Development Thread

Vorshlag Shop car / S550 Development Thread Introduction - October 23rd, 2014: This thread is where we talk about our testing, shop work, parts development, and racing with S550 Mustangs. We will use this thread to share weights, pictures, and tech of various S550 Mustang parts and cars we work...

trackmustangsonline.com

To new buyers I recommend getting a 2018-2020 PP1. It's already got the right factory bits and is configured and programmed with the thought it might see the track. Add the extra PP2 undertray and "splitter" to help with the brake cooling. Install a set of track-only brake pads for track days and upgrade the stock brake fluid. Buy a second set of track wheels to preserve your track tires, and make whatever suspension upgrades you want, but I'd at least add camber plates and an adjustable front swaybar. Then get some seat time.

 

[302BOB]

Then get some seat time.

That's one of the MOST important things you do to get better at a track!!!!...all the mods in the world won't help you if you don't know what you're doing behind the wheel!!!

 

[flyhalf]

Hello and welcome
The pp1 is probably the best compromise.
The pp2 advantages are
Little stiffer setup
And bigger tires.

In a pp1 you will buy (i hope for you ) dedicated bigger squared wheel tire combo
Also you don't need coilovers. Neither magnaride.

First ever time at the track with a mustamg was LAGUNA for me. A stock pp1 runs 1.42-44
My personal advice
1. Go there stock. Take a baseline.
2. Grab bigger wheels. Put 305mm squared tires
3. Driver mod
4. Better pads and brake fluid
5. Driver mod
6. FP shocks and bmr springs (not need of coilovers yet. You won't go faster. )
7. Driver mod
8. Driver mod
And ..driver mod

Few points.
1. The car will overheat somenthing. Especially with increasing speed. Diff is for manual one of the first thing.
You will need coolers. Diff. And oil.

DON'T BUY THE BASE. Brakes are awful. Also radiator is smaller. You will end spending more than perf pack.

Where do you live?
Alex

 

[302BOB]

DON'T BUY THE BASE. Brakes are awful. Also radiator is smaller. You will end spending more

Great advice, if you're considering going this route..............

 

[Ewheels]

PP1: Brembos (total necessity), larger radiator, Torsen 3.73, marginally stiffer suspension, extra chassis bracing, 255/275 tires, optional magneride

PP2: everything on the PP1 plus 305 cup2 (varying offsets though), comes standard with magneride

I think the biggest reasons to get the PP1 would be the Brembos and the Torsen. Everything else, you will upgrade anyway. The PP2 is essentially just wheels and tires but they are not rotatable so you will likely change these out anyway. PP2 not worth it in my opinion. That being said, plenty of people buy the base model and swap Brembos on it.

If you can find a PP1 for a good price, I would vote for getting that. Great starting point

 

[JP X]

IMO, whatever gets you the better radiator, Brembo brakes, and Torsen diff is the most important package. The rest is easy to add at a reasonable cost. Things like K-braces, strut tower braces, etc are not expensive from Steeda. And for what they charge for the Magnaride you can get some OK coil-overs w/ camber plates. Look at the wheels too. The PP wheels that came with my '17PP are boat anchors. Aftermarket wheels are easily 8-11 lbs lighter per wheel. I also agree with the previous comments about not buying new. I bought the premium performance package new not knowing where I would end up. In retrospect, paying extra for things like heated-cooled seats (which are now on a shelf in my garage, if anyone needs them) was a waste of money. If only I had known that I would end on on the HPDE Crack Pipe...

 

[JDee]

IMO, whatever gets you the better radiator, Brembo brakes, and Torsen diff is the most important package. The rest is easy to add at a reasonable cost. Things like K-braces, strut tower braces, etc are not expensive from Steeda.

All this stuff comes on the PP1. It's the best damn deal ever!

 

[jtarozzzi]

Hello and welcome
The pp1 is probably the best compromise.
The pp2 advantages are
Little stiffer setup
And bigger tires.

In a pp1 you will buy (i hope for you ) dedicated bigger squared wheel tire combo
Also you don't need coilovers. Neither magnaride.

First ever time at the track with a mustamg was LAGUNA for me. A stock pp1 runs 1.42-44
My personal advice
1. Go there stock. Take a baseline.
2. Grab bigger wheels. Put 305mm squared tires
3. Driver mod
4. Better pads and brake fluid
5. Driver mod
6. FP shocks and bmr springs (not need of coilovers yet. You won't go faster. )
7. Driver mod
8. Driver mod
And ..driver mod

Few points.
1. The car will overheat somenthing. Especially with increasing speed. Diff is for manual one of the first thing.
You will need coolers. Diff. And oil.

DON'T BUY THE BASE. Brakes are awful. Also radiator is smaller. You will end spending more than perf pack.

Where do you live?
Alex

Thanks for the info I live South San Jose

 

[Flyboygsxr]

Why not just buy a used GT350. It’s ready to hit the track out of the box.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Then you have the bonehead stubborn fools like me that dump a ton of cash on the Boss because they like them better.

Who was that who said... You cant make a thoroughbred from a pig, but you can make a really fast pig. Me thinks its refering to a 911, but same thought applies.