how much do sub frame connectors effect chassis flex?

[blacksheep-1]

a demonstration.....

http://vid149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/blacksheep-1/20141104_143442_zpsyfjpcygh.mp4

 

[Brandon302]

Nice video, how does the chassis do prior to the braces, also which is the best value.

 

[ford20]

None really. The S197 chassis is leaps and bounds stiffer than the Fox platform and the subsequent SN95 platform that followed it. There really is no need for subframe connectors to be honest.

 

[Roadhouse]

None really. The S197 chassis is leaps and bounds stiffer than the Fox platform and the subsequent SN95 platform that followed it. There really is no need for subframe connectors to be honest.

^ Yup

 

[blacksheep-1]

I agree that the S197 is head and shoulders over the old FOX platform in regards to stiffness but would disagree with the non use of any type of chassis stiffening. Even going back and stitch welding the factory welds provides an increase in support adding a roll cage is huge.

 

[Tomball Boss]

Amateur question - but after installing roll cage, what suspension modifications are typical to return the car to "neutral" cornering? I traded my Boss for an LS this week. I've been unable to take her out this week.....but during the 200 miles home I played a bit. I was lost in the corners as the car felt so different. I can see that there is some additional camber dialed in to the car. It has the original Corsas installed for the sale. I felt "disconnected" from the front tires and experiencing more understeer than in my old Boss.
Suggestions/options for a rookie? I was expecting more oversteer, but that wasn't the case.
Thanks.

 

[blacksheep-1]

LS.....I'm assuming Camaro?

 

[Tomball Boss]

Not a chance.
Given no other mods....the addition of roll bar would affect the handling characteristics of the Laguna Seca in what way?

 

[Grant 302]

This is going waay off topic...

But did you happen to check the shock settings? And how do they compare to what you were using on your other Boss? I'm thinking the difference in grip between the Corsas and the base P Zeros is the main difference in what you're feeling.

Considering the location of the roll bar, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference regarding handling balance in a blind test.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Not a chance.
Given no other mods....the addition of roll bar would affect the handling characteristics of the Laguna Seca in what way?

OK Laguna Seca...I'm on several different boards and they all have their own lingo

As far as making the car stiffer, I'm not sure that will automatically make the car handle better, what id does do is amplify each suspension adjustment, as an example, if you have ever fired an automatic pistol the slide moves back on the frame ejecting a case and picking up another round, if you do something called "limp wristing" the slide has nothing to push against and it can cause a malfunction of the gun. The same is true in an automobile chassis, you stiffen a shock setting, but only...say about 70% of that is actually transferred to the tire, the rest is lost on chassis flex. This is why every race car out there gets seam welded and a roll cage installed, it's also the reason the rule book calls out roll cage specifics, because ..supposedly.. the cage is to protect the driver not enhance performance.
So back to your question, assuming the Laguna is a much more stiffer car than your Boss, then adjustments should act the same...but more. The first rule of handling is to adjust tire pressure, it's fast, cheap and will tell you exactly which direction to go head. Take 4 psi out of the front and see if the push goes away, if not, add 4 psi to the rear. This would send you down the road to.. softer front bar..stiffer rear bar..harder rear spring. Shocks on the other hand can get kind of dicey, at first the inclination is to make the front softer on bound, but go too soft and the car may enter and exit ok, but push in the center of the corner as the shock can no longer compensate at it's maximum bound, if that happens, stiffen it back up a little on bound and go to the rear shock and look there. Stiffen it a little on rebound so it doesn't transfer all the weight to the front wheels as fast as before. I am also assuming you have a good quality tire on the car that is about the same as you had on the standard boss, otherwise comparisons are much harder to do.
Hope that helps.

 

[cobrakidz]

I added full length sub fame connectors and pan hard bar to my 04 Mach 1 and it made a big difference, and after adding the FLSC to my 03 Cobra it was stiffer. I felt it on the road but also when jacking up the car from the side there was a lot less flex. I am sure the Boss is much more stiff since the car was built for the track.

 

[BigTaco]

I guess the best way to answer your question would be this: no matter what the platform/car.. the stiffer the chassis is (torsional rigidity, ect..) the more effective the suspension components will be and the better they can perform their job. The Fox mustangs (79-93) have a notoriously wimpy/flexi chassis compared to most any car on the road. That is why welding in sub- frame connectors has such a positive effect on ride and handling. The S197 chassis of your Boss LS is nice and rigid from the get go; the most rigid example of the breed. Adding a roll cage (depending on the cage and how it was designed...a whole different topic in itself) could potentially improve the chassis rigidity but not in a way that would negatively effect handling. Make sense?

BigTaco

 

[DGRacing]

Amateur question - but after installing roll cage, what suspension modifications are typical to return the car to "neutral" cornering? I traded my Boss for an LS this week. I've been unable to take her out this week.....but during the 200 miles home I played a bit. I was lost in the corners as the car felt so different. I can see that there is some additional camber dialed in to the car. It has the original Corsas installed for the sale. I felt "disconnected" from the front tires and experiencing more understeer than in my old Boss.
Suggestions/options for a rookie? I was expecting more oversteer, but that wasn't the case.
Thanks.

The corsas have to come up to temp before they will grip and talk to you. before that they are ice skates. If you drive them hard cold, they will chunk apart. Just a tradeoff of the grippy compound.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Having tires at the proper pressure and the proper temp is vital, how many guys have you seen wad a car up on pit out at Daytona after a tire change? (on the road course)
This is why there are qualifying set ups and race set ups, basically that's all about managing the temp/pressure relationship