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HS-CAN and MS-CAN message raw CAN mapping

captdistraction

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I'm working on data integration on my car, and I honestly don't know much about the CAN bus on these cars outside what's in service manuals:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=1027&viewfile=Communications%20Network.pdf

What I'm hunting is how the messages are formatted so that I can import a profile into my racecapture/pro and read that delicious telemetry data. I know AIM has some of that info, but they don't publicly publish it. Any car hackers on this board who can point me in the right direction? I have an IDS which is the backup plan, and I can use the RCP to read the datastream a bit, but I'd prefer to not have to go down a road more difficult than my skillset supports.
 

captdistraction

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We have the obd2 pids already as part of the base platform. What I'm hunting is the format and data mapping of the remaining advanced pids on the ms and hs can bus. Things like:

Tpms status
Steering angle
Brake cylinder pressure
Status of various modules and sensors outside the obd2 pid list

I have found some info but it's all been basic stuff like abs wheel speed sensors
 

67GTA

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captdistraction

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My hardware (logging) setup is:
The car and its onboard sensors
Autosport Labs Racecapture/Pro Mk3 Real Time Telemetry System (with a dedicated raspberry pi dashboard and a shift light/warning light system - a bit outside this discussion)
6 Dedicated analog sensors on the RC/P (oil pressure 1/2, oil temp 1/2, fuel pressure, transmission temperature), in addition to the onboard suite of sensors (GPS position/speed/time data, 3 axis accelerometer, gyroscope)

As the article mentions, I pull some data from the car: (HS-CAN = ford's native operating protocol for data, constant live stream of data, OBD2/Mode21 - diagnostic standard where you send requests and get a response from the OBD2 port/HS-CAN connection - slower, less efficient)

  • RPM data, from the HS-CAN bus
  • Wheel speed data from each wheel, from the HS-CAN bus
  • Steering Wheel Angle from the HS-CAN bus
  • Brake pressure data from the HS-CAN bus
  • Commanded throttle position from the HS-CAN bus (which is a lot nicer than what is seen on the OBD2 Mode21 pids)
  • Fuel level from OBD2
  • Intake Air Temperature from OBD2
  • Cylinder Head Temperature (mapped as Engine temperature) from OBD2
There's a few more data pids I'd like to get (spark advance, cam timing, knock data, ambient temperature) that I'm working on, but there's a few ways I use the data and it ultimately is all about going faster and becoming a better driver on a better platfom.

First way I use the data is with their podium platform for analysis. I'm setup to be able to send the data in realtime, and make useful analysis in the cloud, using data to make decisions; most recently around:

  1. Cooling: Benchmarking a mechanical water pump vs a electric one (7* average delta, 5* peak given near-identical track conditions)
  2. Cooling: Benchmarking Boss 302s grille vs an open mesh one (9* average delta)
  3. Cooling: effect of short shifting on lap times vs engine temperatures (it doesn't help as much as one would like)
  4. Validating oil system and fuel system efficiency under high g-loads
  5. Training a driver who's far from capable (that's me :) ) - looking at inputs or comparing peak speeds, shift points etc to faster folk and being able to draw conclusions as to where opportunities for speed are
The second way is with video for analysis: Visualizing that data really helps when it comes to mapping the driver's inputs to laptimes or the car's condition. You can see how there's a ton of data dumped and visualized on this screenshot

1589143448825.png


I also share this with other parties like Racer's 360 to do coaching. Here's a recent video where you can see a lot of that data in real time;


Also here is a previous weekend's data, where one can see some difference in the running throttle curves that the coach (Jade Buford, of mustang fame) points out and I somewhat correct in the above video (where in the below video I drive it in too hard)



So that's some real-world ways I use data to set up the car and improve my craft, and how well they work in reality (look how well the steering data syncs up with my hands). In the near future I'll be adding 16 channels (4x4) of real time tire temperature data to help with alignments and pressure settings. While that won't replace having a tire expert on crew, it will help me be a bit more informed and start recording and mapping data on tires without having to keep a pencil log on paper. I can start making decisions on chassis setup, alignment settings per track, how tires perform as they age, etc.

I hope this answers the question, let me know if I met the mark.
 

67GTA

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Wow, thanks for the extensive reply!! It helps me greatly as I try to decide which route to go, and I’m sure others will appreciate your depth of knowledge here. I’m impressed with how Autosport Labs worked with you to map the channels you were looking for. Again, thanks for the info.
 

Corral Man

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VEEERRRRY Interesting. That system seems relatively affordable too. Can you script the system to show steering angle compared with yaw or heading?

You wouldn't happen to know Frasier Elliott would you? He's got a Teal Notchback track/street car.
 

captdistraction

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yeah, I know him. Go way back into much earlier days of the internet and he runs locally. He's got more track miles on that fox than I'd argue all of the members here have combined, with few failures (finally saw him lose a wheel recently, just to be able to fix it and keep going for the day). Great guy.

Yes on the scripting, a virtual channel could be made to do that type of analysis
 

Corral Man

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I’m wanting to do a data logging setup in my Boss but had shied away largely because of the cost. But for $7xx that’s pretty good. Do you have some way to show me how you got the HS data channels piped into the unit?

Frasier has helped me out with The Corral for years. Great guy.
 

captdistraction

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For the racecapture (which they also have the racecapture track at $299, a bit easier entry point if you don't need all the analog connectivity), you can select 11-14 mustang as a preset in the software to set it up with all the sensors I have.

For general setup, their wiki has a ton of info: https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/Main_Page and they have active facebook groups for support and a forum as well (and there's a few of us here using the system).

here's a youtube they did a while back on some of the can mapping:
 

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