Fabman
Dances with Racecars
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Dang. You know better than I do. That sounds about right.
I've been paying attention.
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Dang. You know better than I do. That sounds about right.
No. We were talking about the actual racecar driver: @ajaquilante and the Phoenix cars. Oops...Your response was to a quote where the person mentioned my car.
Not sure if that was meant to be snarky, but I know him as Andrew. And yes, he's an extremely good driver.No. We were talking about the actual racecar driver: @ajaquilante and the Phoenix cars. Oops...
I specifically mean your small canards (and only 2) for the ‘10-‘12 style. The OP of this thread has a 2011 GT. And even more so, that they are only the smaller ‘upper’ ones in your 4-piece design.
And checking the 2019 AI rules, small for the allowed size and quantity:
So the OP would, like I said, be better off spending the money elsewhere. Either from another shop like @EIGHTLUG ’s or with somebody else that makes 4 that fits his model year.
Right now, I am just trying to get some starting mods done, like wheels/tires, some suspension stuff, and then I'll move some into the aero. So this was made for a kind of future plans thread. In regard to Grant's comments, at this moment yes, my money would be better spent elsewhere. However, eventually I will likely invest in canards, but I just wanted to get some outside opinions on aero in general, as well on the possibility of functional custom canards. Regardless, thank you AJ for the information you've given, it has been very helpful.That depends what the OP is aiming to achieve.
Understood and you're welcome. I was going off your original post and I do agree with Grant to an extent where a wing would be the next best move if you build, or install a splitter. But since you mentioned you weren't on board with a wing and dealing with the "ricer" comments, makes me feel you already understood a wing would be a good match with a splitter and added comments based on your canard questions. As for canards, after the splitter and wing cancel out the lift generated by the rest of the car, it may make 200ish lbs of Df (on a small flat splitter and decent wing with very little angle). So even if canards added 20-40lbs of Df at 100, that a 10-20% bump in Df from such a small device. And a front shift in Df on a nose heavy mustang is always a good thing. Edit: For example, on the E36 in the wind tunnel, adding canards provided almost a 15% forward shift in downforce since the total downforce was fairly low. Adding canards to my car, since the splitter alone made almost 800lbs of Df, the actual raw Lbs of Df generated was close to the E36, but only resulted in about a 2% forward shift in downforce. This also kinda highlights why just throwing out a raw Df number may be misleading.Right now, I am just trying to get some starting mods done, like wheels/tires, some suspension stuff, and then I'll move some into the aero. So this was made for a kind of future plans thread. In regard to Grant's comments, at this moment yes, my money would be better spent elsewhere. However, eventually I will likely invest in canards, but I just wanted to get some outside opinions on aero in general, as well on the possibility of functional custom canards. Regardless, thank you AJ for the information you've given, it has been very helpful.
Canards will create a lower pressure zone in the wheel well by forcing are up, over, or around the tire and tire opening. This low pressure zone now wants to be filled and will allow air to travel under the splitter easier (yes, some will come from other areas like the engine bay and we’ve actually seen increases in the pressure drop across a radiator from canards in the wind tunnel as well) thus allowing the splitter to make more downforce. Canards themselves don’t make much downforce, but how they affect the air as a whole allow the whole package to work better.AJH,
Can you comment on splitter and canard location or shape and how the 2 work together?
Can you comment on general wickerbill heights like is there a relation between WB height and chord length or can this only be found in the wind tunnel?
Yeah, I think that would be a decent assumption that canards would have a greater affect on a tunneled splitter than a flat splitter.Interesting AJ. So could it be a safe-ish generalization to say that canards can (if designed well) also increase the effectiveness of splitter tunnels (if designed well) since they decrease wheel well pressure and a tunnel can then vent into the wheel well more easily?
C’mon. The ones you make for the 2011 aren’t big enough or shaped or located to do any of that. Doesn’t seem to me you address bob’s question at all.Canards will create a lower pressure zone in the wheel well by forcing are up, over, or around the tire and tire opening. This low pressure zone now wants to be filled and will allow air to travel under the splitter easier (yes, some will come from other areas like the engine bay and we’ve actually seen increases in the pressure drop across a radiator from canards in the wind tunnel as well) thus allowing the splitter to make more downforce.
Fudge... Some canards do actually make significant downforce as independent devices, without consideration of downstream and secondary effects.Canards themselves don’t make much downforce, but how they affect the air as a whole allow the whole package to work better.
I addressed bobs question on the interaction of the relationship between canards and splitter.C’mon. The ones you make for the 2011 aren’t big enough or shaped or located to do any of that. Doesn’t seem to me you address bob’s question at all.
Please, share what data you have to prove or disprove your claim. Not sure if you are aware, but as you call them a winglet, due to the pressure differential, a vortex is created. I have several run photos of our canards with wool tufts in the wind tunnel producing these vorticies that you claim down exist on ours. Also, seems like you are not taking into consideration that the low pressure created by the splitter draws air in a downward angle along the side of the bumper. A simple oil drop test can show this on anyones car with a splitter. So the physical angle of the canard isn't quite as important as the interaction of the oncoming air and canard.As for any vorticity...what vortex? Yours aren’t actually shaped for it and basically function as a mini little winglet. Clearly seen in the lack of AoA in any sense. And then not moving enough mass to influence any flow much less to even create any coming out of the wheel well.
Yes, some canards do. But you gotta consider rules, manufacturing time and complexity, and just the sheer size of them, costs, and the fact that not everyone wants, or needs a huge set of canards on the front of their car. As I mentioned in earlier posts, if a splitter is allowing the front of a car to make 100lbs of Df (about a reasonable claim based on the wind tunnel tests I've ran with cars with flat splitters) Then a small pair of canards making 20lbs of Df, is still a 20% forward shift in aero balance. Thats still significant. Everyones wants and needs are different. There is no one universally perfect size.Fudge... Some canards do actually make significant downforce as independent devices, without consideration of downstream and secondary effects.
Basically, the canards in question don’t do much on even a high speed straight. And they do even less in a turn when adding yaw. The one on the windward (inside) side of the turn loses the most downforce of the two. A good design would make more.
Noticeable difference is relative. A very experienced driver in tune with his car would notice it in high speed handling. A first time DE person, probably not. Cooling is probably relatively un changed. Drag will go up a tad. Not sure what you mean by the science behind it but the data behind a splitter and spoiler making downforce has been around for ages. So since it was lumped into one question, if your goal was more Df and a more stable car at speed, yes, run them. If its fuel mileage, I'd say keep them off. Or if you just plain like how it looks, then put them on.Guys, sorry for a slightly different topic but the OP kindly invited any aero questions:
Do the stock 2012 Boss front aero upgrades (lower front fascia and small "splitter," street version, not the LS front splitter) make any noticeable difference in cooling, fuel mileage, or high speed stability compared to a stock 2011 GT?
I have a 2011 GT with the standard fugly lower front fascia and the little oem ducktail style rear spoiler.
Honestly I might do the Boss upgrade regardless just because it looks so much better. But I'm interested if there is any actual science behind the idea.
Thanks for any insight.
Now that's a damn clean way of doing it.Here is my lowered splitter after I completed fabricating a foam spacer with 1/16 ABS sheet stock covering all the exposed areas. I also installed aluminum tube columns in the foam to prevent compression. I may add a small deflection "wing" for forcing air into the oil cooler which is right behind the lower grille opening. The splitter is now 3.5 inches off the track surface. Also added in the 4 inch intakes for brake cooling while I had the front end apart.
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