Max squared fitment with no studs and spacers

[ShifterX]

The goals for my build are a fun street and HPDE car. Fast lap times are fun, but I am not chasing tenths. This is mostly a street car. I have used spacers in the past and in my experience they add NVH. If I have to use them, so be it. But I would prefer to avoid them and sacrifice some width. I have read all the fitment guides ( I think) and Apex lists the 19x10" ET40 wheel squared with no spacers and 19x11" ET52 squared with spacers.

What about 19x10.5" ET45? Will that size fit without rubbing the strut or poking out?

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[EF1]

I have run the Apex Ec7 19 x 10” ET 40 with up to 285/35/19 tires without spacers. No rubbing.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Just throwing it out there.... But the stock studs do not last long and are not very strong. ARP, or the like, Studs and GOOD spacers are rock solid safe with zero dramas. You do not want the spacers that have the lugs mounted on them, those are a pain in the as$ and are not safe. Would hate to make the investment in 19x10 wheels when just a tad more gets you 19x11's and a lot more grip.

These type of spacers are used by many TMO track cars with zero dramas.

OPRacing 4th Generation Hub And Wheel Centric Slip On Wheel Spacer - SET OF 2 SPACERS

2015 2016 2017 Ford Mustang Wheel Spacer

www.opmustang.com

 

[JDee]

What Mad said. Those things with the studs mounted in them are known as "adapters" in my part of the world. They double the possible points of failure, since you've now got 10 bolts/nuts to break, come loose, etc.
I ran high quality spacers with ARP extended studs for 6 years with my last car and had zero issues with them. Just don't buy cheap spacers, you want the best up there that you can get.

 

[Champale]

Are you asking for an S197 or S550?

I ran 20x10.5 ET45 squared with 3mm spacer to clear Brembos on my Boss 302. Went through a few different tire variations to not get rub at back on rear fender lip and about 2 degree neg camber up front with the car lowered about 1".

 

[ShifterX]

Just throwing it out there.... But the stock studs do not last long and are not very strong. ARP, or the like, Studs and GOOD spacers are rock solid safe with zero dramas. You do not want the spacers that have the lugs mounted on them, those are a pain in the as$ and are not safe. Would hate to make the investment in 19x10 wheels when just a tad more gets you 19x11's and a lot more grip.

These type of spacers are used by many TMO track cars with zero dramas.

View attachment 90919

OPRacing 4th Generation Hub And Wheel Centric Slip On Wheel Spacer - SET OF 2 SPACERS

2015 2016 2017 Ford Mustang Wheel Spacer

www.opmustang.com

As always I learn stuff with every thread here. I noticed these spacers have the hub centric lip which is critical for keeping the assembly radially balanced. The issues I have had with the flat spacers in the past, is they defeat the centering hub bore. I did not know these were an option. Thanks

still, I would like to stay away from spacers if possible. I am targeting a 285ish size tire. In my mind a 10” rim barely covers a 285 and definitely not a wide 285 like the GY super car 3. A 10.5 opens up some options including some 295s.

 

[ShifterX]

I have run the Apex Ec7 19 x 10” ET 40 with up to 285/35/19 tires without spacers. No rubbing.

Yes, this is my safe fitment plan. Thanks

 

[ShifterX]

Are you asking for an S197 or S550?

I ran 20x10.5 ET45 squared with 3mm spacer to clear Brembos on my Boss 302. Went through a few different tire variations to not get rub at back on rear fender lip and about 2 degree neg camber up front with the car lowered about 1".

What size and type tires ended up clearing the rear fender? If the brakes cleared did you need the 3mm spacer to clear the strut?

 

[Champale]

What size and type tires ended up clearing the rear fender? If the brakes cleared did you need the 3mm spacer to clear the strut?

285/35/20 Pilot Super Sports cleared in back. Tried 305/30/20 then 295/30/20 PSS and they were both really wide (much wider than other brands at the time). Both of them rubbed. I suspect that a 19x10.5 ET45 could work with 305/30/19 all the way around as long as the car isn't slammed.

The 3mm spacer up front was just to clear the brake calipers - there was plenty of clearance to the strut. Keep in mind that a 20" wheel is half an inch taller at the lip where it approaches the strut so I can't be certain a 19" wheel would clear as cleanly but I think it would probably work. There were at least 1 or 2 guys on the old S197 forum running 19x10.5 ET45 squared so you might want to find those posts.

 

[EF1]

As always I learn stuff with every thread here. I noticed these spacers have the hub centric lip which is critical for keeping the assembly radially balanced. The issues I have had with the flat spacers in the past, is they defeat the centering hub bore. I did not know these were an option. Thanks

still, I would like to stay away from spacers if possible. I am targeting a 285ish size tire. In my mind a 10” rim barely covers a 285 and definitely not a wide 285 like the GY super car 3. A 10.5 opens up some options including some 295s.

You can always start with 10" wheels for dual use. If you decide you want more grip for the track you can keep them for the street and go to 11" wheels and spacers for a dedicated track set. I have had ARP extended studs for years for the strength, but have stuck with 10" wheels and no spacers. I am thinking about adding a set of 11" wheels and spacers for dedicated track use over what little winter we get here in TN.

 

[Dave_W]

Keep in mind that if your car has enough miles to think about replacing the front hubs / wheel bearings, Ford Performance offers pairs of front hubs with ARP extended studs already installed.

 

[ShifterX]

That’s a good call. I assumed I would need a set of hubs soon. That’s why I wanted to get the wheel fitment settled now, before I bought other parts.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

If you something sticky look towards RE71RS Bridgestones, Falken RT660s, or Nankang CR-S rubber. For a bit longer life and definitely slower Continental Extreme Force, the old standard RS-4s, or look into the Goodyear F1 SuperCar 3 ( great choice and if a USAA member a big discount under the " Perks " section ).

Do get stronger studs and as Dave_W noted you might as well get new hubs too, so make it easy on yourself and get ahold of Tim at OPR Mustang or Lou at Capaldi Racing ( both Sponsors here ) and get new hubs with the race studs already installed.

 

[ShifterX]

It’s going to be an endurance type tire that can handle street duty. RS4 was definitely on my mind before I started looking. The gy sc3 looks promising as well but it seems like a wide running tire. Tire rack shows a 10.5” tread width for the 285. I would need a minimum 10.5” wheel for that.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Not sure about your logic as it shows a 9.5 to 11 inch wheel for a 285/35/19 and TireRack is quite accurate on what wheel widths fit with various tires. More importantly there are quite a few of us who when wider wheels were not even available years back, we ran some 295s on 10 inch wheels. Not suggesting that now, as Apex, Forgeline and others give us plenty of choices. If you want something that will last longer then the Conti Extreme Force is another choice and I would choose over the RS-4 as it is newer technology.

 

[mavisky]

Also keep in mind you can do a square setup that's non-rotatable. Apex offers 11" wheels in both rotatable and non-rotatable offsets for S197's.

• Front: 19x11" ET26 // Rear: 19x11” ET52
  • Available in: SM-10, VS-5RS, EC-7RS, SM-10RS
  • Additional negative camber is required up front. We recommend at least -2.75*
  • No front spacers are needed
  • No spacers are needed on the rear for cars with OE (divorced) rear springs
  • 3-5mm rear spacer may be needed for cars with true rear coilovers depending on spring length/preload

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Interesting data from Mavisky, but for the ability to rotate all 4, I believe the long term benefits for both autocrossing and tracking your car make the extra costs worthwhile , imho. Stronger studs are super beneficial regardless, so in the long run the real cost is just getting spacers up front. This advice is coming from an AARP member, Social Security recipient, who is older than dirt and has made the mistake, more than once, of buying staggered wheels and regretting it. Sure, there are cars where is will not work, but thanks to Apex's research and work with Mustang owners, you have a solid wheel system you can rotate around pretty easily.

History note:
VoodooBoss ( orgInator of this site ) got together with a few Apex Execs years back explaining the needs for Trackrat Mustang owners, and the lack of limited wider wheels for the many models. Thanks to him ( a small legacy ) , you have a broad range of hub centric wheels from Apex today!

 

[mavisky]

Interesting data from Mavisky, but for the ability to rotate all 4, I believe the long term benefits for both autocrossing and tracking your car make the extra costs worthwhile , imho. Stronger studs are super beneficial regardless, so in the long run the real cost is just getting spacers up front. This advice is coming from an AARP member, Social Security recipient, who is older than dirt and has made the mistake, more than once, of buying staggered wheels and regretting it. Sure, there are cars where is will not work, but thanks to Apex's research and work with Mustang owners, you have a solid wheel system you can rotate around pretty easily.

History note:
VoodooBoss ( orgInator of this site ) got together with a few Apex Execs years back explaining the needs for Trackrat Mustang owners, and the lack of limited wider wheels for the many models. Thanks to him ( a small legacy ) , you have a broad range of hub centric wheels from Apex today!

To be clear I prefer the rotatable setup on extended studs with spacers. It's what I run on my car, but since OP wanted to avoid that I wanted to let him know that there are options still.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Understood, Mav, and that was why I listed it as interesting as it is, but when everything is said and done it comes down to essentially just spacers in my mind. I recommend everyone get studs if they are going to do a lot of tracking, because Mustangs love curbing and the stock studs on most cars are not super strong in my opinion.
Appreciate your note and I was unaware Apex gave that choice, but so many of us bought staggered wheels over the years, and though the example means all four tires are the same width, the ability to fully rotate is lost. Just an old man post to try and save you youngsters from making choices that cost us more in the long run.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Bill

Didn‘t Voodooboss also go with a bunch of trackrats and rent new mustangs at a track, I believe the new 2013’s. The cars had sticky street tires. More than one car had broken (stock) wheel studs the first weekend of use.
Yes, them boys could drive and yes curbs were only suggestions. That’s when I ordered the ARP studs for my car. Those studs are still on my backup hubs. Buy once, cry once.