This brake kit seems like a no brainer, right?

[67GTA]

Seeing that now. After reading through the relevant threads, it’s starting to come into focus.

For me braking feel and performance are not necessarily the same. Performance lap over lap is critical, but feel builds confidence, confidence builds speed.

like probably most here I prefer a pedal that almost stops dead and braking power can be manipulated by pedal force rather than pedal travel. If I can’t have that I would take a pedal that increases braking force with travel. Last on the list is significant dead pedal travel, then full braking.
Bottom line, I am concerned about pairing the s550 pp brembos with the s197 master.

like everything else, ROI becomes a dominant factor. My initial thought when starting this thread was the referenced kit seemed like more brakes for less money than the track pack brakes. maybe not the case.

Here’s a copy/paste from an older post describing my experience with the 4 pot track pack Brembos vs the S550 6 pot. This comparison is made running G-Loc R16’s in both setups. I’ve learned that R18’s are the magic sauce for the S550 setup.

Initial bite is consistent despite the change in caliper/pad size. With the larger calipers, I can apply more force which is where they stop more aggressively than the smaller caliper. I find it much easier to modulate the S550 setup as well - less of an on/off switch, making the pedal stroke much more linear through the range. Some have noted they feel the stroke is longer with the PP calipers - I’m not sure if it’s that, or if it’s just more linear. Regardless, trail braking is greatly improved with the S550 setup.

 

[302BOB]

Brakes are a crucial part to going fast............you need to slow up or stop once in a while.............I experienced brake fade once in the Boss doing stuff I shouldn't have been doing.......it's not a pleasant feeling, that's for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............that's putting it mildly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ShifterX]

If I go with the gt500/boss 14” front brakes, should I also add the larger 13-14’ gt500 rear rotors and brackets? Or will that add too much rear bias?

 

[Mike_FL]

This thread has a lot of great information. FYI Full Tilt Boogie offers GT350 brake packages for the S197 cars and StopTech has a 15" rotor and 6 piston brake package that occasionally seems to be on sale for a little more than $2k. I had them on my Boss and they were lighter overall and the difference in braking was significant using Ferodo 2500s on both setups. Brake pedal feel was actually even better than the OE 14"/4 piston setup.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/huge-brake-upgrade-for-s197-chassis.11867/

Interesting….. I was looking for someone who had installed the full tilt boogie GT350 set up on the S197.
If the peddle feel is the same or even better I may upgrade to these in the future

 

[EF1]

If I go with the gt500/boss 14” front brakes, should I also add the larger 13-14’ gt500 rear rotors and brackets? Or will that add too much rear bias?

I swapped to the larger rear brakes while still running the stock 14" 4 piston Brembos on my car. I didn't have a problem with too much rear bias. The larger rotors do handle more heat than the small stock rotors. You can always dial in the feel with your pad compounds.

 

[Champale]

Interesting….. I was looking for someone who had installed the full tilt boogie GT350 set up on the S197.
If the peddle feel is the same or even better I may upgrade to these in the future

Just to clear up my post - I had the Stoptech 15"/6 pistons on my Boss, not the GT350 Brembos. I was curious about installing the 350 brakes on the Boss because the brakes on my 2020 GT350R are SO GOOD but I had concerns about pedal feel, too, so I went with the Stoptechs when they were on sale.

 

[stevbd]

I swapped to the larger rear brakes while still running the stock 14" 4 piston Brembos on my car. I didn't have a problem with too much rear bias. The larger rotors do handle more heat than the small stock rotors. You can always dial in the feel with your pad compounds.

Same here. I have the 14" 4 piston Brembos and swapped to GT500 rear brakes because I was frying axle seals. The bigger rear brakes fixed that problem but honestly I didn't notice any difference in actual braking balance or performance, either on track or street. On track I run GLOC 12 in front and 8 in the rear.

 

[ShifterX]

Either way it sounds like I will go for the larger rear brake setup. Thanks

Back to the front. So for OEM options it really comes down to the 14" 4 piston brembos vs the 15" GT500 6 piston vs the 15" S550 PP 6 piston. Not sure if stack ranking is helpful, but this is my takeaway from what I have seen.

Cost: S550 PP > 4 pot Brembo > GT500 6 pot

Peak Capacity: S550 PP > GT500 6 pot > 4 pot Brembo

Pedal Feel: 4 pot Brembo > GT500 6 pot > S550 PP

The S550 PP setup seems like the cheapest, but with questionable pedal feel. The 4 piston 14" setup seems like a sure bet for feel but doesn't have the peak performance of the 15" setups. While the GT500 15" setup seems to have the performance and feel, it costs a bit more than the other two. Obviously there are some other variables, but is that a fair summary?

 

[blacksheep-1]

The 07 Gt500 front brakes were goid enough for Grand Am and PWC, and they are a direct bolt on with no master cylinder issues. THAT sounds like the no brainer to me.

 

[ShifterX]

The 07 Gt500 front brakes were goid enough for Grand Am and PWC, and they are a direct bolt on with no master cylinder issues. THAT sounds like the no brainer to me.

Yep... And lighter, and more wheel options (assuming).

Is it cheaper than the S550 PP kit? The ford racing kit seems like more (street price of $1500). But I would guess I can piece together a kit by ordering track pack calipers and rotors from Ford, right?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Yep... And lighter, and more wheel options (assuming).

Is it cheaper than the S550 PP kit? The ford racing kit seems like more (street price of $1500). But I would guess I can piece together a kit by ordering track pack calipers and rotors from Ford, right?

It's less hassle than dealing with any master cylinder issues. You can occaisionally find the parts on e Bay for $500 used.

 

[stevbd]

Yep... And lighter, and more wheel options (assuming).

Is it cheaper than the S550 PP kit? The ford racing kit seems like more (street price of $1500). But I would guess I can piece together a kit by ordering track pack calipers and rotors from Ford, right?

I'm almost positive the 4-piston GT500, Boss, and "Brembo" or "Track pack" calipers are all functionally the same with only cosmetic differences. Here are the GT500 version for $260 per side. https://www.tascaparts.com/v-2011-ford-mustang--shelby-gt500--5-4l-v8-gas/brakes--front-brakes

I've used both the GT500 and Boss versions on my 2011 GT over the years and they seem identical.

 

[ShifterX]

Excellent…

is the splash shield important to get?

 

[Mad Hatter]

I'm almost positive the 4-piston GT500, Boss, and "Brembo" or "Track pack" calipers are all functionally the same with only cosmetic differences. Here are the GT500 version for $260 per side. https://www.tascaparts.com/v-2011-ford-mustang--shelby-gt500--5-4l-v8-gas/brakes--front-brakes

I've used both the GT500 and Boss versions on my 2011 GT over the years and they seem identical.

the earlier GT500 brakes up to 2012 are the same as the Boss and track pack set up. 2013-2014 GT500 brakes are 6 pot with 15" discs.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Excellent…

is the splash shield important to get?

Actually for any kind a track work its important NOT to have the splash or dust shields.

 

[Stangra]

is the splash shield important to get?

Actually for any kind a track work its important NOT to have the splash or dust shields.

Better still, replace it with a ducted plate for brake cooling.

 

[ShifterX]

Actually for any kind a track work its important NOT to have the splash or dust shields.

Yeah I wasn't sure if the splash shield in the kit directed airflow in some positive fashion.

@Mad Hatter what are your thoughts on the PP 6 piston calipers vs 4 piston? Thanks,

 

[Mad Hatter]

Yeah I wasn't sure if the splash shield in the kit directed airflow in some positive fashion.

@Mad Hatter what are your thoughts on the PP 6 piston calipers vs 4 piston? Thanks,

The Four pot Brembos are a pretty good setup. It will depend what kind of racing you do and how fast your tracks are. For example the 4pots with a good race pad like Pagid or gloc will work great for time trails or W2W with speeds less then 130mph. For me, in the races we ran, the S550 15" brembos were key in being able to beat prepped Cayman GT4 cars . After the first 10 laps or so, I could real in and pass the Gt4 cars on late braking. The 15" setup basically did not fade at all during the whole race. Where they really stand out is the ability to brake the car down from 150mph again and again. The 14" 4pots didn't really like going over 130mph repeatedly.

Which ever set up you get, make sure you have brake cooling ducts!! None of the above applies if you do not have them installed. I like the ones @Fabman has as they also come in 4".

 

[Mad Hatter]

@67GTA earlier post is dead on as well. An aggressive race pad like the Pagid RST2 or 3 or the Gloc18 is easier to control on the pp15" setup then on the 14" brembos. The range of modulation is longer which makes the car easier to brake at the limit. 15" PP Pads are more expensive since they are HUGE, but they do last longer.

 

[ShifterX]

Good stuff thanks. The closest I would ever get to racing with my car will be TT. It will be a street/HPDE car so everything will be set up around that. My goal for the build is capable of backroad touring and then going and pounding laps (typically inter/adv group). I will be looking for the magic crossover brake pad that everyone knows doesn't exist. Never ran G-locs but I have used carbotechs and the max I would expect for this car would be XP10. In my experience XP12s and above are just not street able. Considering I will be adding ducting, and considering your other comments, I have two questions.

1) How was the brake feel with the PP 6 piston setup? Did it require adjustment in your driving style, or did it interfere with heel/toe?
2) Will the 6 pot PP setup give me the ability to run a step less aggressive on pads while having the same thermal capacity?