Need help deciding on tires based on regulations

[Ilghar]

Installation of “non-premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT Legal competition tires that have a moulded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping.

I have no idea what "moulded tread pattern" and "on-circumferential siping" means or which tires are made this way.

Need some recommendations for tires based on the given rules, this is for time attack.

 

[KazarS197]

Welcome to TMO! Don't forget to do a vehicle profile. It will automatically generate a build thread.

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I only do HPDE so not really sure on classifications. Maybe you can get some definitions in the tire descriptions in this link.

Grassroots Motorsports ultimate track tire guide

What you need to know before choosing your next track tire.

grassrootsmotorsports.com

Mark

 

[mavisky]

Installation of “non-premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT Legal competition tires that have a moulded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping.

I have no idea what "moulded tread pattern" and "on-circumferential siping" means or which tires are made this way.

Need some recommendations for tires based on the given rules, this is for time attack.

Do you have a link to the rules from the governing body?

I'm guessing they're talking about something like the Hoosier A7.

It has a moulded tread pattern (just for tread depth monitoring), but it's non-circumferential as it doesn't continue uninterrupted around the circumference of the tire. The "non-premium" portion is very strangely worded as that's a subjective evaluation. Most people don't think of Kumho or Falken as "premium" tires in the general population, but in certain racing circles they absolutely are considered premium.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

It might be easier to comment on what group you are running with. Sometimes the semantics used in those writing the rules tends to befuddled the masses when the answer to what is legal or not could be just to look in their Tire Rules Section.

 

[KazarS197]

Do you have a link to the rules from the governing body?

I'm guessing they're talking about something like the Hoosier A7.

It has a moulded tread pattern (just for tread depth monitoring), but it's non-circumferential as it doesn't continue uninterrupted around the circumference of the tire. The "non-premium" portion is very strangely worded as that's a subjective evaluation. Most people don't think of Kumho or Falken as "premium" tires in the general population, but in certain racing circles they absolutely are considered premium.

View attachment 88155

I found the rules. Maybe full context of the tire breakdown with help with the "non premium" wordage.

https://ontariotimeattack.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/DRAFT-2023-Time-Attack-Rules-1.00.pdf

Page 37


Or just skip all the research, email them and ask for a list of what they consider " non premium"

 

[blacksheep-1]

Installation of “non-premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT Legal competition tires that have a moulded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping.

I have no idea what "moulded tread pattern" and "on-circumferential siping" means or which tires are made this way.

Need some recommendations for tires based on the given rules, this is for time attack.

IMO
Hoosier A7s are legal.
But check to make sure

 

[Ilghar]

IMO
Hoosier A7s are legal.
But check to make sure

they are not, i was going for 3 pips, A7 is 10 pips, but im just gona go with 0 pip.

 

[Ilghar]

I'm just starting time attack, so I'm not going with expensive tires that will last 2 months. will probably get Nankang CRS next summer then will decide from there.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

If you are going with 3 PIPs you have quite a few solid choices and even a Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 might be a good choice.

Others are the new CR-S, RT 660 Falken, or the new Bridgestone RE71RS. They all are quite fast and are likely going to last long enough for one just starting, though the Goodyear and the Falken may be the longer lasting. I would not suggest the A052 Yoke as they just wear way too fast.

 

[Ilghar]

If you are going with 3 PIPs you have quite a few solid choices and even a Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 might be a good choice.

Others are the new CR-S, RT 660 Falken, or the new Bridgestone RE71RS. They all are quite fast and are likely going to last long enough for one just starting, though the Goodyear and the Falken may be the longer lasting. I would not suggest the A052 Yoke as they just wear way too fast.

Most people in Ontario Time Attack use CR-S, im gona wait to see what I actually need before doing more mods than suspension.

 

[blacksheep-1]

WTH is a " pip"?

 

[KazarS197]

One last thing. I know I linked the grassroots reviews earlier. Please keep in mind they are great as a guide and update for new rubber. But, they are doing testing with vehicles like Miatas with much narrower tires and more importantly 1000 pounds plussss less weight than a Mustang. Our cars are a completely different beast. Take the time to search here for forum member tire reviews. Many are very detailed and try to be non biased. Keep note on their car setups and tire widths then compare with yours. It makes a big difference.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Lol with outlawing A7s.
The SCCA learned this the hard way when they specifically outlawed the A7s in A sedan, so Hoosier printed up tires with the same ( or stickier) components and stamped them with another designation. Outlawing tires by compound never works in the long run.

 

[KazarS197]

WTH is a " pip"?

Ya, I'm an Internet nerd....

 

[mavisky]

If you are going with 3 PIPs you have quite a few solid choices and even a Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 might be a good choice.

Others are the new CR-S, RT 660 Falken, or the new Bridgestone RE71RS. They all are quite fast and are likely going to last long enough for one just starting, though the Goodyear and the Falken may be the longer lasting. I would not suggest the A052 Yoke as they just wear way too fast.

Based on the chart provided the CR-S, 660's, and RE71RS would all be 0 PIP. - The fact that they make a special allowance for R888, R888R, and RA-1 in this class is interesting and the R888 against 200 treadwear tires may be something to consider

Cup2, Cup2R, Trofeo R, Supercar 3R would all be in the 3 PIP class

V720's, A048R, A032R, and other weird semi/slick or rain slicks then fall into 5 PIP class which seems like a waste

Then you have 10 PIP for full on slicks like A7's, R7's, and I'm sure actual Michelin or Khumo slicks.


I'd be looking at the 0 pip class as you can get some sticky tires there in good sizes, or I'd look into getting something on the bleeding edge of the 3 pip class with something like a Cup 2 R or Trofeo R. All depends on how much money you have to spend as those tires will be faster, but will wear faster as well.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I would put virtually all of the 200 TWR hot rubber up against the R888 --- noisy, lousy, ice skates in the rain and just flat worthless. The RA1 is more of an endurance tire and I was running those back in 2003. I do sound biased but do your research and you will find the R888R barely faster than Michelin PS4Ss and noisy muthas get loads of negative comments from top drivers!

 

[Ilghar]

Based on the chart provided the CR-S, 660's, and RE71RS would all be 0 PIP. - The fact that they make a special allowance for R888, R888R, and RA-1 in this class is interesting and the R888 against 200 treadwear tires may be something to consider

Cup2, Cup2R, Trofeo R, Supercar 3R would all be in the 3 PIP class

V720's, A048R, A032R, and other weird semi/slick or rain slicks then fall into 5 PIP class which seems like a waste

Then you have 10 PIP for full on slicks like A7's, R7's, and I'm sure actual Michelin or Khumo slicks.


I'd be looking at the 0 pip class as you can get some sticky tires there in good sizes, or I'd look into getting something on the bleeding edge of the 3 pip class with something like a Cup 2 R or Trofeo R. All depends on how much money you have to spend as those tires will be faster, but will wear faster as well.

Super car 3 sounds good, the reviews on them are positive.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Super car 3 sounds good, the reviews on them are positive.

FWIW the Goodyear supermarket is what we run in the WRL. It's a slid, dependable tire. Not absolutely sure how it would work in a TT or autocross class. I also completely disagree that the A7 is a " full on racing slick" it has a DOT stamp and " tread" of a sort. Almost all race slicks will beat it.

 

[mavisky]

FWIW the Goodyear supermarket is what we run in the WRL. It's a slid, dependable tire. Not absolutely sure how it would work in a TT or autocross class. I also completely disagree that the A7 is a " full on racing slick" it has a DOT stamp and " tread" of a sort. Almost all race slicks will beat it.

It's DOT stamp is only there because of it's "tread" which is also laughable. It's a full out and out competition only tire which was the point of that 10 PIP classification bracket. If it wasn't the "tread" which is really only a wear indicator, this thing would not have a DOT stamp. Perhaps "full on racing slick" was a misnomer, but we can all agree that you wouldn't want to try and use these on a street car in any scenario where you can't absolutely guarantee the weather and road surface are both going to be pristine.

I would put virtually all of the 200 TWR hot rubber up against the R888 --- noisy, lousy, ice skates in the rain and just flat worthless. The RA1 is more of an endurance tire and I was running those back in 2003. I do sound biased but do your research and you will find the R888R barely faster than Michelin PS4Ss and noisy muthas get loads of negative comments from top drivers!

Haven't had much experience with the R888 or R888R other than people I know running them on the street in 1000+ hp AWD cars where they seem to hook better than any other street tire including things like Cup2's. If what you're saying is true about their cornering performance, then that's likely why they're stuck off into that bracket despite their straight line performance.

I would not suggest the A052 Yoke as they just wear way too fast.

Actually if this is a true time attack class the A052 may be just what the doctor ordered. After all he doesn't need them to hold up to a 20 minute lapping session, he really just needs one out lap to get them up to temp and then one flyer before returning to the pits. It's more like qualifying than it is like running a regular wheel to wheel event or even a HPDE track session.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The issue is he stated he is just getting started with Time Trials/Track Attack, so a Yokohama A052 really makes little since seat time is the main focus for a beginner. Many are seeing the new Bridgerock RE71RSs as possibly back to being the top dog, and they do wear longer on a road course ( albeit not as well as some other 200 TWR rubber ). The R888R may be semi decent in a straight line , but check any current tire test and you will find it is not well received by any fast driver.

Keep in mind , years back ( this is one very old tire with just a little change to compound and tread design ) this was the Spec Tire for World Challenge and Pro Spec Miata and drivers hated the tire so much it lasted one year with each Series.

I was sponsored by a large Toyo Dealer for Spec Miata ( running RA1s ) and they were a solid tire for years until Hoosiers became legal for the Class.

Back when I was selling we switched folks over to R888s and then R888Rs on Vipers because folks heard they hooked up well. We ended up taking plenty of them off cars because drivers hated the noise and those who were active track rats found them not to be quick on road course.

DaveW ( Soloperformance.com ) tests tires constantly as it is part of his extensive Autocross and Road Racing Business selling tons of products for the autocross/racer community, and he has been killing it on a set of tiny little 295/30/18 RE71RSs, dropping his 315/30/18 Yokes for the new Bridgestones. Folks are paying attention and with an overall Pax Win at a National Tour in Georgia last year, and a dominating Class win this past weekend and the Midiv Championships, many drivers have or are considering switching off Yokes. Both of these tires seem to be the new hot tickets and the only reason I did not suggest A052s is because the OP is just getting started. The Rocks seem to be good for 3-4 more laps on a road course and that could be critical for a new driver.