Need help deciding on tires based on regulations

[mavisky]

The issue is he stated he is just getting started with Time Trials/Track Attack, so a Yokohama A052 really makes little since seat time is the main focus for a beginner. Many are seeing the new Bridgerock RE71RSs as possibly back to being the top dog, and they do wear longer on a road course ( albeit not as well as some other 200 TWR rubber ). The R888R may be semi decent in a straight line , but check any current tire test and you will find it is not well received by any fast driver.

DaveW ( Soloperformance.com ) tests tires constantly as it is part of his extensive Autocross and Road Racing Business selling tons of products for the autocross/racer community, and he has been killing it on a set of tiny little 295/30/18 RE71RSs, dropping his 315/30/18 Yokes for the new Bridgestones. Folks are paying attention and with an overall Pax Win at a National Tour in Georgia last year, and a dominating Class win this past weekend and the Midiv Championships, many drivers have or are considering switching off Yokes. Both of these tires seem to be the new hot tickets and the only reason I did not suggest A052s is because the OP is just getting started. The Rocks seem to be good for 3-4 more laps on a road course and that could be critical for a new driver.

I took that more as "just getting started in Time Attack" and not "just getting started in track day events" I guess and based on him not wanting a set to last 2 months, I offered what I knew to be the best tire for her laps. Great info on the Stones though.

Depending on how many points he has left in his build though, I still think that moving to something like a Cup2 R or the Goodyear 3R might be worth the 3 points over the Yoke's or Stone's though.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

No argument on the Goodyear F1 Supercars as you likely noticed that was my first suggestion and depending on points I, believe like you, the minimal 3 pt. add with those ( or the PSC2s ) makes tons of sense!

 

[Ilghar]

I took that more as "just getting started in Time Attack" and not "just getting started in track day events" I guess and based on him not wanting a set to last 2 months, I offered what I knew to be the best tire for her laps. Great info on the Stones though.

Depending on how many points he has left in his build though, I still think that moving to something like a Cup2 R or the Goodyear 3R might be worth the 3 points over the Yoke's or Stone's though.

R888, R888R, RA-1, and Nitto NT01 are exceptions because they are not as good compared to other 100 tread wear tires, staff member from OTA told me.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

That is sooooooo correct and in fact they ( Toyo and Schittos ) are not even as good as some current " Hot " 200 TWR rubber!

 

[mavisky]

R888, R888R, RA-1, and Nitto NT01 are exceptions because they are not as good compared to other 100 tread wear tires, staff member from OTA told me.

I knew the NT-01's were underperformers based upon their treadwear rating. I've never been impressed with anything I've run from Nitto. The only Toyo experience I've had personally has been with Truck tires and some Extensa's on my Lexus. Those have all been great, but when I saw 100 tw tires in the defacto 200 tw class up there, that should have been my sign.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well, yeah. The A7 was built to the rulebook. But it won't outrun a Michelin S9M, which is a real race slick.
That's what makes Hoosier so awesome, you write the rules, they'll build the tire.

 

[Dave_W]

DOT Legal competition tires that have a moulded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping.

Just wanted to get back to this from a rules weenie perspective. Siping is tire slang for grooves. Circumferential means around the tire, so non-circumferential would be in the sidewall-to-sidewall direction. Moulded means you didn't groove it yourself.

So something like the Hoosier A7 would not be legal, as it only has circumferential siping. Another tire that hasn't been mentioned is the Conti Extreme Contact Force. It's more a track day tire than time attack, but if you're looking for seat time with a tire that doesn't get greasy after a few laps, it's one to consider.

 

[EF1]

I knew the NT-01's were underperformers based upon their treadwear rating. I've never been impressed with anything I've run from Nitto. The only Toyo experience I've had personally has been with Truck tires and some Extensa's on my Lexus. Those have all been great, but when I saw 100 tw tires in the defacto 200 tw class up there, that should have been my sign.

Treadwear ratings are subjective and are not comparable between tire manufacturers. I am in a minority on here, but I think the Toyo R888r gets a bad rep because of the 100 tw rating. If Toyo stamped a 200 on the side it would be better received. It really falls right in with the 200 rated tires for speed and life. I just run HPDE and it works pretty good for that. It isn't the fastest 200 tw tire. It takes some heat to work so it isn't great for autocross, but it is consistent for 20-30 minute HPDE sessions. I also like that it is a non-directional tread, so you can move the tires around the car to maximize wear. They also seem to keep their grip right up until you hit the cords. If you are running competitive classes you need to run the fastest tire allowed in the class and the Toyo isn't it.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I will politely disagree with Eric as the ancient R888 is one of the absolute worst tires in the wet, and it never shows up well in tire tests, but what I dislike the most is it's horrible noise and real lack of speed. It is one of those tires that if you run it at 8/10ths you probably will be fine all day, but once at full tilt boogie it is piggy pusher. I could waste too much time on this tire's issues over the past 20 years ( yeah, I know there was a minor tread design ) but I will save you folks the pain, just get the Continental Extreme Force , RS-4, or Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 if you want an endurance 200 TWR or close to it ( Goodyear is a 220 rating ).

 

[EF1]

I will politely disagree with Eric as the ancient R888 is one of the absolute worst tires in the wet, and it never shows up well in tire tests, but what I dislike the most is it's horrible noise and real lack of speed. It is one of those tires that if you run it at 8/10ths you probably will be fine all day, but once at full tilt boogie it is piggy pusher. I could waste too much time on this tire's issues over the past 20 years ( yeah, I know there was a minor tread design ) but I will save you folks the pain, just get the Continental Extreme Force , RS-4, or Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 if you want an endurance 200 TWR or close to it ( Goodyear is a 220 rating ).

I knew we wouldn't agree on this one Bill. That is why I said I know I'm in the minority on this one. I never ran the old R888, just a couple sets of the R888r. I don't run competitive classes, just HPDE and for my use they haven't been bad. I only use them as a dry weather track day tire, so noise isn't a problem. I can't hear them with the windows down and my helmet on. I wouldn't choose them as a street tire.

The first set corded on the 13th track day. They were consistent and a good bang for the buck since I bought them with the NASA discount and used some NASA Toyo Bucks. Good enough where I used the same discounts and bought another set. I have 7 track days on the current set and they still have plenty of life in them. I have a set of RS4's as well that I am just starting to run for comparison. So far grip is similar. I don't know how long the RS4's will last, but the tread is directional so I will have to remount or run the tread in reverse to move from right to left on the car. Do you have any experience with running the tread in reverse?

I saw several cars at NCM running the R888r two weeks ago, so I am not the only one running them as a track day tire.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

No argument that folks are running them, it is just not one of the tires that is very quick and if durability is the concern then there are others out there that are better. I have tons of friends that swear by them for running at the strip or just hammering on a straight stretch of road, but once they get into running competitively they are disappointed at how there are so many tires quicker out there. Since you are just running them at the track , why not use your Toyo Bucks for a set of RRs, they will last as long or longer and will be faster.


I think you will find for durability that an RS-4, Continental Force, or a Goodyear F1 SuperCar 3 are other solid choices, but the Toyo Bucks is a good marketing tool, and if you decide to go that route get the RRs. Spec tire, so designed to last , but they will be quicker than the R888Rs.

 

[G-HORCE]

If you are going with 3 PIPs you have quite a few solid choices and even a Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 might be a good choice.

Others are the new CR-S, RT 660 Falken, or the new Bridgestone RE71RS. They all are quite fast and are likely going to last long enough for one just starting, though the Goodyear and the Falken may be the longer lasting. I would not suggest the A052 Yoke as they just wear way too fast.

The new Bridgestones are fantastic. Take heat better than the Falkens or Yoks too. Wish they made big boy sizes.

 

[EF1]

No argument that folks are running them, it is just not one of the tires that is very quick and if durability is the concern then there are others out there that are better. I have tons of friends that swear by them for running at the strip or just hammering on a straight stretch of road, but once they get into running competitively they are disappointed at how there are so many tires quicker out there. Since you are just running them at the track , why not use your Toyo Bucks for a set of RRs, they will last as long or longer and will be faster.


I think you will find for durability that an RS-4, Continental Force, or a Goodyear F1 SuperCar 3 are other solid choices, but the Toyo Bucks is a good marketing tool, and if you decide to go that route get the RRs. Spec tire, so designed to last , but they will be quicker than the R888Rs.

Moving to the RR is the plan as I am starting to outgrow the R888r. I will run the R888r until they cord with the RS4's if it is wet. Once the R888r's are gone I will run the RS4's and order RR's for the other set of track wheels. The rr in 295/30/19 is the spec tire for one of the BMW spec classes and is something like $75/tire cheaper than other sizes and the R888r in similar sizes. It is a bargain for a track day tire. Toyo bucks from the lower level NASA HPDE program exclude the RR, which is why I went with the R888r initially. I am not sorry I did as it was economical and a good learning tool for me. I do recognize its short comings on the street and in the wet.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The RR is not one of the quicker slicks , but it is one of the longest lasting since it is the Spec Tire for a slug of NASA Classes. TrackDayTire is solid for pricing and you can get a " Racer Discount " with the owner , Chris Miller.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Keep in mind G -Horse, DaveW ( solo performance.com ) who is a fellow member and autocross stalwart, is rocking quite a few events on a set of 295/18s ----showing size does not always matter, ha! He switched from 315/18 Yokes and the jokes on them so far as the little bitty Bridgerocks are rocking the cone courses.

 

[Duane Black]

Have you asked how they classify a Toyo RR? It has two center grooves and sounds like it would fit 3 PIP.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Mav, do remember ye olde Tire Guru, Meester Blacksheep Uno, is the master at Hoosiers and likely knows more about them than 99.9 % of the folks on this Forum. Rumors are he is so close to them he has them supporting his king size bed. He is beyond accurate on their description because all of us who have run on a Michelin or Pirelli slicks will tell you they will be a minimum of 1 second ahead of a Hoosier. Sounds small, but by the old rule of thumb, 1 second on a 2 mile course is 10 car lengths , so in only 10 laps that little ole Bibendum rubber bubble is 100 cars ahead of the Whose yours!

Nuff said , but I defer expertise to the Master Rubber Holder and Stacker -- for some reason that sounds wrong.