Pretty cool cooling mod

[adam81]

I like my vehicles to look as OEM as possible where it can. But of course that is personal preference. I think with what cloud9 has done and then taking it a step farther and cutting out the remainder little bit should really open up the top of the radiator and allow much more air in. If this doesn't do the trick a radiator may be the answer. I do believe tracked cars should install a legitimate oil cooler in addition to the stock system. Also I have had great results in different vehicles with installing a lower temp thermostat (coolant) and having the fans reprogrammed to turn on at a lower temp (match the thermostat). However with the reported high temps the car is designed to run at I don't know if this is a viable option...

 

[roywilk1960]

Keep in mind, it's not just air in, it's also air out. Get rid of any antifreeze if you are tracking the car. Make sure you add some water pump lube. Konklin is a good one to use. NAPA 13 also works.

 

[Dean#4AI]

Interesting info on the fan relay and a new radiator.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/2012-boss-302-mustang-373/785060-boss-302-5-0-radiator-interest.html

 

[JScheier]

It's looking more and more like I will be removing the OEM water/oil cooler and going with an aftermarket air/oil cooler.

- Stock 2011 GT, no cooling issues, no water/oil cooler.
- Stock 2012 Boss, cooling issues, bigger radiator, water/oil cooler.

22mm sandwich mount (haven't decided if thermostat or not)
front mount cooler
4-5' of hose
4 fittings

 

[cloud9]

Interesting info on the fan relay and a new radiator.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/2012-boss-302-mustang-373/785060-boss-302-5-0-radiator-interest.html

Yea Van called me about the radiator and was explaining the fan shutoff. It sounds like reading his post that maybe this is accounted for in TracKey? Makes you wonder if running with TracKey will help with cooling. We'd know if we had it! Sorry Rick but I still blame CA

 

[adam81]

I read that post as well and it is very interesting. Some electrical wizard must be able to figure out an easy way to change the way the fan turns on and off.....

Cloud9 have you tracked your car after you did the grill mod? Or has any one for that matter?

 

[cloud9]

I did one day. It was 86F and I ran it extremely hard. The highest I got was 240F, but mostly in the mid 230s. I pushed into the mid 240s on that track when it was 88F ambient, so it seems like it helped some. Not sure if it was 95F ambient whether it would have been enough though. I'm going to BIR in a week but don't expect anything over low or mid 80sF so not sure whether it will be a good test or not.

 

[cloud9]

Keep in mind, it's not just air in, it's also air out. Get rid of any antifreeze if you are tracking the car. Make sure you add some water pump lube. Konklin is a good one to use. NAPA 13 also works.

I ran 25%AF/75%Distilled Water in my GT500 along with Water Wetter and Konklin conditioner. Are we sure if we run 100% distilled water with a bottle of Water Wetter that we won't have any corrosion issues?

 

[adam81]

Thanks for the quick response. With temps in the southeast where I live the grill mod just may not be enough. I will know in a few weeks! If we can find an inexpensive way to keep the fans running based on certain temperature point vs a low low speed : this may be the little bit we need to keep out of limp mode. However for me personally I don't want to be running right on the edge of limp mode. For the hot summer we may need a radiator, and a real oil cooler may be a great idea.... Time will tell!

 

[roywilk1960]

cloud9, In tests that I have been a part of the water wetter doesn't do much on real race cars. With the proper amout of Konklin you should have no problem with corrosion.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Thanks for the quick response. With temps in the southeast where I live the grill mod just may not be enough. I will know in a few weeks! If we can find an inexpensive way to keep the fans running based on certain temperature point vs a low low speed : this may be the little bit we need to keep out of limp mode. However for me personally I don't want to be running right on the edge of limp mode. For the hot summer we may need a radiator, and a real oil cooler may be a great idea.... Time will tell!

The edge of limp mode is not the edge of engine damage, so run up to all you want, you will not hury anything.

 

[cloud9]

Thanks for the quick response. With temps in the southeast where I live the grill mod just may not be enough. I will know in a few weeks! If we can find an inexpensive way to keep the fans running based on certain temperature point vs a low low speed : this may be the little bit we need to keep out of limp mode. However for me personally I don't want to be running right on the edge of limp mode. For the hot summer we may need a radiator, and a real oil cooler may be a great idea.... Time will tell!

The edge of limp mode is not the edge of engine damage, so run up to all you want, you will not hury anything.

If the tuning logic is anything like the GT500, which I'm guessing many of the same rules apply, the hotter the engine gets, the more timing is pulled to prevent detonation, which in turns reduces power. So there is an advantage to running cooler despite no risk of engine damage.

 

[VoodooBoss]

When visiting with the Ford Race team at Laguna Seca we were told the engine was designed to run 220-240 all day long with no issues and 250 was set at a "safe" limit for limp mode. Hitting limp mode will not do any damage to the engine. The engines are "bullet proof".

 

[JScheier]

So... question from the peanut gallery:

If the solution to this is for me to purchase a $750 aftermarket radiator (or possibly M-8005-MGT) and/or add a air/oil cooler, is this the right solution?

Is the client base going to end up logging enough issues with Ford about the cooling on this 'Track car with a License Plate' that Ford implements a solution (which would probably result in M-8005-MGT being installed)? If so, then should we all just wait?

I dunno. If it is just a modification to the fan controller to have it run on 'high'... maybe only with the track key... maybe that resolves it. Maybe it does need a larger radiator. Maybe the water/oil cooler is the issue.

I know Mark Wilson and other Ford Racing employees visit these forums on occasion... can we get any direction from them (please)?
-Will M-8005-MGT resolve the issue?
-If not, does the resolution also include an air/oil cooler?

I'll drop more money if it doesn't look like there will be a factory resolution to this... but I'd really prefer to have a factory fix and/or direction from Ford / Ford Racing as to whether this fix (or another) will make for happier endings to lapping days.

My $.05.

John

 

[2012YellowBoss]

John
Are you having problems? I have not had any problems and it seems the people that do are running hard with a lot of experience out there. As for me and other others beginners I will just sit back and let some of things things get sorted out in time. I don't want to get myself into spending money on things like I did with rear brakes that are not needed.

 

[JScheier]

John
Are you having problems? I have not had any problems and it seems the people that do are running hard with a lot of experience out there.

Yup. NASA Time Trials, BMWCCA instructor, SCCA Instructor, NASA instructor. Approx. 20 years on track (last 10 in a BMW M3 running TTC. Before that was all Mustangs (86GT, 94GT, 95Cobra). My car just came out of the shop (mainly for a transmission issue)... but it did spew coolant in session 1 and ran hot after 2 laps at the last NASA TT event. I wasn't pushing it hard (maybe 7-8 tenths as I had students in the car)... which REALLY surprised me when it did go hot. I've now drilled out the fogs and added water wetter. I'm thinking that will help, but not resolve.

I'd prefer not to throw money at it (I think I already threw a big chunk when I signed the papers)... so if someone from Ford could just say , "Yes, that will resolve the issue".. I'm there.

I'm going to do a lapping day on August 5th (High Plains) and the next NASA Rocky Mountain Time Trial is August 15th. I'd like to be able to get more than 2 laps a session if possible.

 

[PJWANNABE]

John
Are you having problems? I have not had any problems and it seems the people that do are running hard with a lot of experience out there.

Yup. NASA Time Trials, BMWCCA instructor, SCCA Instructor, NASA instructor. Approx. 20 years on track (last 10 in a BMW M3 running TTC. Before that was all Mustangs (86GT, 94GT, 95Cobra). My car just came out of the shop (mainly for a transmission issue)... but it did spew coolant in session 1 and ran hot after 2 laps at the last NASA TT event. I wasn't pushing it hard (maybe 7-8 tenths as I had students in the car)... which REALLY surprised me when it did go hot. I've now drilled out the fogs and added water wetter. I'm thinking that will help, but not resolve.

I'd prefer not to throw money at it (I think I already threw a big chunk when I signed the papers)... so if someone from Ford could just say , "Yes, that will resolve the issue".. I'm there.

I'm going to do a lapping day on August 5th (High Plains) and the next NASA Rocky Mountain Time Trial is August 15th. I'd like to be able to get more than 2 laps a session if possible.

I have to say I am disappointed to hear of some of the problems people are having already with Bosses. My '08 Bullitt runs and runs at track events and the temp gauge barely moves. Even with all of the development Ford did with the Boss, the reality is that the 5.0 S197 is still very new so it will take time for the issues to shake out. The '08 Bullitt 4.6 had the benefit of being at the end of long history of development. I will be watching closely before I think of making a move on a Boss.

 

[cloud9]

As a dedicated track rat I consider this a minor solvable issue in what is undoubtedly the best trackMustang ever. I have run against 95 and 00 Cobra Rs and they can't catch me. If you're serious about buying a Boss I wouldn't for a minute let it stop you.

 

[PJWANNABE]

As a dedicated track rat I consider this a minor solvable issue in what is undoubtedly the best trackMustang ever. I have run against 95 and 00 Cobra Rs and they can't catch me. If you're serious about buying a Boss I wouldn't for a minute let it stop you.

I would love to have one, but I think I will wait for the 2013 though to give Ford a chance to shake out bugs. I prefer the 1970 style striping and like the Grabber Green color best anyway.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I have a request for info out on this stuff to see if any other racers have experience with it:

http://www.evanscooling.com/coolants/