Pretty cool cooling mod

[BossJockey]

So... question from the peanut gallery:

If the solution to this is for me to purchase a $750 aftermarket radiator (or possibly M-8005-MGT) and/or add a air/oil cooler, is this the right solution?

Is the client base going to end up logging enough issues with Ford about the cooling on this 'Track car with a License Plate' that Ford implements a solution (which would probably result in M-8005-MGT being installed)? If so, then should we all just wait?

I dunno. If it is just a modification to the fan controller to have it run on 'high'... maybe only with the track key... maybe that resolves it. Maybe it does need a larger radiator. Maybe the water/oil cooler is the issue.

I know Mark Wilson and other Ford Racing employees visit these forums on occasion... can we get any direction from them (please)?
-Will M-8005-MGT resolve the issue?
-If not, does the resolution also include an air/oil cooler?

I'll drop more money if it doesn't look like there will be a factory resolution to this... but I'd really prefer to have a factory fix and/or direction from Ford / Ford Racing as to whether this fix (or another) will make for happier endings to lapping days.

My $.05.

John

From Mark Wilson Re the radiators: "The Boss 302R and 302S use two different radiators. Long story but they both work fine. If it were up to me I'd go with the Ford Racing radiator that is used on the Boss 302S which is more of a car that I'd recommend street Boss 302 owners mimic with their cars as it uses so many Ford Racing bolt on parts. The part number is M-8005-MGT and will reject any heat that the Boss 302 can throw at it."

Also from Mark re the oil cooler: "Contrary to what is published on the Ford Racing website it (302S) uses a unique air to oil cooler. It is more similar to the Boss 302R but not as big due to the shorter nature of the races."

"It would not be economically feasible for us to offer the oil cooler kit we put on the Boss 302S as it included a remote oil filter and custom lines. People would just opt for a cheap kit i'm afraid."

I would not count on Ford fixing the problem because:
1. Very small percentage of owners are having an issue and the car keeps no record of the incident.
2. The car is not warrantied for "Racing", and no one is overheating on the street.

As far as which to do first, if you planning on only tracking your car and not driving it on the street, I would install an aftermarket air to oil cooler. If you planning on driving it on the street, I would replace the radiator. You can get the M-8005-MGT from LateModel Restoation for $660.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8005MGT/2005-10-Mustang-Gt-Ford-Racing-Aluminum-Radiator

 

[JScheier]

Ordered one (M-8005-MGT) this morning. Should have it next week, prior to going to High Plains Raceway on August 5th. Sure hope it works.

 

[cloud9]

I have a request for info out on this stuff to see if any other racers have experience with it:

http://www.evanscooling.com/coolants/

Looks interesting, but I'm not sure it helps in our case. If the PCM is programmed to go into limp mode at ECT (CHT) of 250F, then raising the boiling point of the coolant won't help without an after-market tune that raises that limit.

 

[BossJockey]

Ordered one (M-8005-MGT) this morning. Should have it next week, prior to going to High Plains Raceway on August 5th. Sure hope it works.

Cool. Don't forget to weight it before you install it.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Ordered one (M-8005-MGT) this morning. Should have it next week, prior to going to High Plains Raceway on August 5th. Sure hope it works.

What? Someone's doing a mod before Gary? ;D

 

[cloud9]

Ordered one (M-8005-MGT) this morning. Should have it next week, prior to going to High Plains Raceway on August 5th. Sure hope it works.

What? Someone's doing a mod before Gary? ;D

I have a feeling John will be doing a lot of mods before Gary. I'll just try and keep up

 

[adam81]

This matches my suspicions. For us track guys we will need a better radiator and oil cooler.....

 

[JScheier]

I'm a bad influence (and my friends are worse). I'll try the radiator for ya'll Should be here Tuesday. I've got an open lapping day at High Plains scheduled for August 5th and a two day NASA Time Trials for the 13th-14th. That should give enough track time to see if the radiator solves the problem. I'll track Ambient and ECT's as much as I can (hard to write and turn in my fastest lap!).

If that doesn't do it, then an air/oil cooler will be a must... but that will have to wait until winter as my financier isn't real thrilled with me right now :

 

[VoodooBoss]

This matches my suspicions. For us track guys we will need a better radiator and oil cooler.....

I wonder if the separate oil cooler is the place to start.

 

[BossJockey]

I wonder if the separate oil cooler is the place to start.

If there was a bolt on kit with thermostat control available that was $650 or less, then yes.

Either way the all aluminum radiator will be more durable the the plastic tank stock unit.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I just finished another HPDE here in South Florida and the Boss ran great. For anyone worried about hitting the track with all the issues being posted, well don't worry. I doubt I have a magical car and the hottest I saw was upper 220's maybe 230. The outside temp was around 95 and the track temp was 140.

Most of the guys having cooling problems belong in a Boss 302S. I don't mean that as an insult rather a complement. You guys are running way harder then most of us will ever learn how. I do not baby my car, I run as fast and hear as I can and have never had any issues. Like I said before Ford has to make a car to preform well on the street and in many different climates, I think they did a great job accomplishing that and still being able to hit the track as a rookie pushing it and having a blast. Some of you guys are just a bit more skilled then this and have had a few problems but for the rest of us don't let all this talk stop you from hitting your local track for great day.

While mods like this will help and are great ideas I am just passing this on to help out guys new to the track. I have not modded my car at all for the track besides brakes and tires.

 

[cloud9]

Good post Scott. I have had 6 track days and went into limp mode once. I have had to "manage" it a couple times though. That said the highest ambient I have encountered was 92F. I am heading to BIR this weekend and won't see anything over mid-80s ambient. That said I will most likely upgrade my radiator this winter so I can run without any concerns in central NE during the summer months and not worry about 90+ degree temps shutting me down.

 

[JScheier]

M-8005-MGT is installed. Started at 4:30 and was in the house, showered and eating dinner by 7. Figure a tick over 2 hours from wheels up to closing the garage door.

Tools needed:

Floor Jack
Jack Stands (4)
3 gallon bucket
Channel Locks
10mm open end wrench (speed wrench is best)
7mm socket
8mm socket
10mm socket
E6 inverted torx socket
ratchet (I used 1/4")
small screw driver
approximately 3 gallons of fluid (I used 2 gallons water, 2 bottles of water wetter and re-used / strained Ford Coolant for the remainder)

Steps:

1. Put car in the air (not covering that)
2. Move lower under panel covering oil filter to service position (8mm bolts)
3. Remove front portion of lower under panel (7mm bolts)
4. Loosen radiator drain plug and drain coolant into bucket
5. Remove radiator cap
6. Remove throttle body intake tube (10mm clamp)
7. Remove cold air filter box after removing MAF connection (pull red tab out and then pull connector out of MAF)
8. Remove snorkel which leads to cold air box
9. Remove front radiator cover (8 push pins removed with screwdriver)
10. Remove line from coolant reservoir to radiator (channel locks x 2 clamps)
11. Remove coolant reservoir (10mm bolts x 2) once it is empty and fold back onto intake
12. Remove 2 lower nuts holding condenser to radiator (10mm open wrench... tight fit)
13. Remove upper radiator mounts (2x 10mm each mount)
14. Push top of radiator towards motor and remove top bolts holding condenser to radiator (2x10mm)
15. Using a small screwdriver, slide the blade into the fan connector from the end facing the center of the engine compartment. You should feel the tab with the blade. Depress and release the plug.
16. Remove upper radiator hose at the radiator using channel locks
17. Remove lower radiator hose at radiator using channel locks. Ford installs this clamp with the tabs facing the frame rail. I started from under the car, rotated the clamp and then finished from the top of the car.
18. Pull radiator out. Sounds easy, but I found I had to lift the driver's side up to get past all of the fan connections

Once out of the car, take the red caps which are used for shipping the M-8005-MGT radiator and place them on the OEM radiator to keep fluid from going all over the place. Once the caps are on, lay the radiator on the floor with the fan side up.

1. 2x10mm bolts to remove the fan. Slide fan off of the OEM radiator. Remove the speed nut tabs and transfer to the MGT radiator. Reinstall fan on MGT radiator

2. Flip the radiator over and transfer the two upper speed nut tabs to the MGT radiator.

3. Same side, using an inverted TORX E6 socket, remove the two studs for the lower condenser mounts, remove the two speed nut tabs and transfer all to the MGT radiator.

Radiator took some finagling to get back in. It is 3/4" deeper, and the aluminum frame has sharp bits. Just take your time and slowly work it down where it need to go. The hardest part here was getting the lower condenser mounts over the studs. Once that was done, make sure that the rubber gaskets are in place and then reassemble in reverse order.

Pretty sure there will still be air in the system, so bleed it and keep some fluid with you for a day or so.

John

PS - I'm writing this 1 hour after finishing up... plus a beer or two (or three). It really was pretty much drop-in and straight forward. I'll review this in the AM and see if I made any errors

PPS - Also, the MGT radiator shipped with the drain valve open. I've got a soggy shoe to prove it. Closed is with the petcock all the way out... check it before adding fluid

 

[cloud9]

Last session at BIR was 82F ambient and highest ECT was 240F at top of 5th but most times was in low to mid 230s. Heading back out now and it's warmer. Changes since last time are vented fogs, water setter and Conklin's conditioner.

 

[cloud9]

It was 90F ambient at BIR this afternoon and the Boss ran STRONG. ECTs peaked in the 246F range, but recovered quickly when you shifted and dropped RPM. They would almost instantly drop 10-12 degrees every time you shifted. Amazing. That's actually a good sign that the cooling system is effective. I think it's really just a tweak. I'm really thinking John's higher capacity all aluminum radiator is going to do it, but we'll see after you run it next week.

The Boss really earned a lot of respect at the PCA event. I had so many people coming up and asking what mods I'd done to the motor. None. What suspension mods have you done? c/c plates, otherwise None. A couple guys commented about how they could understand a Mustang maybe running them down in the straights but were shocked to get reeled in in the twisties as they put it. I had a corner worker who was working on credits for SCCA come over and chat me up for quite a while. He said with a Eastern European accent "this car is monster"

I just want Ford to know that despite some tweaks for serious track duty, this car is unbelievable. Most people were shocked that it only cost $43k when it's running with $130k GT3s. Thank you for building the Boss Ford 8)

 

[adam81]

I ordered the piece and it is supposed to come in on Friday. I will let you all know. The parts diagram on the parts guys computer at the dealership distinctly showed the grill as two pieces. The red trim is one piece and the black piece we all want to cut up is the second. Pop your hood and take a look at it yourself. Jiggle and move it around and look at the plastic screws that attach it all together. Two pieces.....$50......

(I hope I don't eat my words here as I am away on business and couldn't double check before posting)

It has been confirmed through Ford. The cost of the Boss grille (msrp) is around $380. It includes both the black piece and the painted part. You cannot buy the grill alone. Personally I think this is crap. They are two distinctly different parts that are bolted together.

The $50 is for the GT grill....

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Sounds like you had fun Gary, now if (some of) the rest of us could learn to drive it we too could chase down cars that cost twice as much ;D

 

[cloud9]

I'm looking forward to Track Attack at MMP. Should be a great learning opportunity. ;D

 

[1BadBoss]

I'm looking forward to Track Attack at MMP. Should be a great learning opportunity. ;D

Will we learn to drive like you ? ;D

 

[cloud9]

We'll all learn to drive better