Pretty cool cooling mod

[JScheier]

How about an update John ;D

Tomorrow.... tomorrow. ;D

 

[cloud9]

LOL lost track of the calendar :-[

 

[cloud9]

How about an update John ;D

Tomorrow.... tomorrow. ;D

OK it's tomorrow ;D I'm just getting ready to order..........

 

[BossJockey]

How about an update John ;D

Tomorrow.... tomorrow. ;D

OK it's tomorrow ;D I'm just getting ready to order..........

LOL, At least let it get to the hottest part of the day.

 

[JScheier]

Well... the M-8005-MGT didn't help with the cooling issue in my Boss.

Radiator bought me about an extra lap or so. Some interesting info:

1. Session 1, ambient was 77* (per EEC). By 3 laps in I was flirting with 250* temps (Aeroforce / EEC) and the gauge had already pegged. Didn't go into limp mode and did not spew any coolant. Backing down for a lap or two quickly brought the temps down to 230* and I could go another lap before I was back at 250*.

2. Session 2, ambient was at 85*... same as #1

3. Session 3, ambient was 89*... same as #1

After lunch I did 3 more sessions with the ambient slowly climbing to 91* (per the aeroforce gauge / EEC reading). If I short shifted everywhere, I could go 4+ laps before getting to 250*, but even then, the temps rose quickly.

Also noted that my gauge will peg at 245* and will not come back down even if the temps drop to <230*. Starting to question the stock gauge / sensor.

Did not get limp mode at all during the day.

There was another boss 302 out there. I don't believe that driver was pushing quite as hard as me... but he was having the same issues although his stock gauge would drop back to 1/2 if he let off for a lap or so. He also encountered 2 MILs (1 misfire and 1 EVAP code).

Other than that, the car is a real treat on track. Able to run down just about anything short of a Z06 on Hoo-Hoos. Very tossable and catchable (very important). I still think it needs a touch more camber (~2.5* should be good for track as another Boss owner has shown). Took several people for rides and they all remarked at how neutral the car felt and the power.

I'll get this solved and then the car will be a real threat on track!

 

[cloud9]

Thanks for the writeup John. Sure sounds like you can ignore the stock gauge. To be honest I didn't even look at my stock gauge the last two track events. Do you think you would have gone into limp mode if you kept pushing? I saw 246 several times at BIR pulling down the front straight reclining 3rd 4th and 5th but never went into limp mode. Think I should cancel my radiator I just ordered yesterday?

 

[steveespo]

How are you guys running that the temps are so high? I just yesterday did the stock Boss radiator install on my GT even though I have had no cooling issues at 3 track days this year. The stock GT radiator is a joke, the Boss is twice as thick and adds a quart more capacity. Do you think the piston cooling jets in the Coyote engine make a difference? My last day was at Watkins Glen July 11 and I ran 5 sessions with ambient from 76 to 92 degrees and no sign of limp mode. As I have posted my car makes 403 hp at the wheels and I run a 7300 redline, which I hit at the end of the straight for the bus stop. I currently run the stock 3.31 gear and I use Mobil 1 European formula 0W40 oil. I really find it strange that the Boss cars are having cooling issues, I guess a 302S hood is also a good idea to get the heat extracted from under hood, supposed to give a little downforce as well.
I am going to follow thisvthread closely and maybe we can collectively find the cause and solution to the issue.
Steve

 

[cloud9]

It's primarily RPM driven IMO. Living between 6000-7500 rpms is what really drives the ECTs through the roof. I have seen ECT drop from 246 to 235 almost instantly shifting from redline in 4th to 5th gear dropping RPM to around 5500. Now that said I've only been into limp mode once. I am fine with ambients up to about 90-92F so am not surprised you didn't have trouble.

 

[Jza1736]

My first track days are next month. Summer has been very hot here in NY. Can't predict how September will be and I'm sure I won't be pushing as hard as you guys. But I will post temps and info. Hopefully the 302S and cooling mod work!

 

[VoodooBoss]

So is the oil cooler going to do it? I wonder if MMP will have something different on their Boss cars?

 

[JScheier]

Please remember, I'm also at a higher altitude than most of you (5500' or more). That reduces the efficiency of the radiator/cooling.

What I'm going to try next is further opening of the front grille. Increase the airflow some more and see if that helps along with the larger radiator.

If that doesn't work, then yes, an air/oil cooler will go in place of the water/oil cooler.

 

[cloud9]

From Mark Wilson Re the radiators: "The Boss 302R and 302S use two different radiators. Long story but they both work fine. If it were up to me I'd go with the Ford Racing radiator that is used on the Boss 302S which is more of a car that I'd recommend street Boss 302 owners mimic with their cars as it uses so many Ford Racing bolt on parts. The part number is M-8005-MGT and will reject any heat that the Boss 302 can throw at it."

As far as which to do first, if you planning on only tracking your car and not driving it on the street, I would install an aftermarket air to oil cooler. If you planning on driving it on the street, I would replace the radiator. You can get the M-8005-MGT from LateModel Restoation for $660.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8005MGT/2005-10-Mustang-Gt-Ford-Racing-Aluminum-Radiator

Radiator inbound from LMR. Supposed to see it 8/15. Next track day 8/25 at MPH.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Radiator inbound from LMR. Supposed to see it 8/15. Next track day 8/25 at MPH.

Is that the one you originally ordered or a different one? If it works for you it should work for most of us.

 

[cloud9]

Radiator inbound from LMR. Supposed to see it 8/15. Next track day 8/25 at MPH.

Is that the one you originally ordered or a different one? If it works for you it should work for most of us.

It's the only one I ordered. Just placed the order Friday night and had it acknowledge today. I'm just following John's lead and Mark Wilson's advice. We'll get there.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

In for results of John's Air-to-Oil cooler, next.

Won't have this settled in time for my first event w/ the Boss (Labor Day weekend) but should have an answer by my October or November events.

 

[JScheier]

In for results of John's Air-to-Oil cooler, next.

I'm hoping that increasing airflow over the radiator negates the need for an A/O cooler. Don't start jinxing me!

 

[Dean#4AI]

Please remember, I'm also at a higher altitude than most of you (5500' or more). That reduces the efficiency of the radiator/cooling.

What I'm going to try next is further opening of the front grille. Increase the airflow some more and see if that helps along with the larger radiator.

If that doesn't work, then yes, an air/oil cooler will go in place of the water/oil cooler.

I was talking to Mark on Sunday about the cooling problems and he mentioned how you were still having problems even after the radiator switch. Then he proceeded to tell me how you guys were talking about it and he finally figured out that you weren't in Texas anymore. ;D

He also mentioned the possibility of modifying the grill but then suggested taking out the grill completely to see if that helped. If it didn't help, then there would be no use in cutting up your current grill.

He also commented about the future possibility of selling Boss 302S grills but didn't say it was going to happen for sure.

 

[JScheier]

I was talking to Mark on Sunday about the cooling problems and he mentioned how you were still having problems even after the radiator switch. Then he proceeded to tell me how you guys were talking about it and he finally figured out that you weren't in Texas anymore. ;D

He also mentioned the possibility of modifying the grill but then suggested taking out the grill completely to see if that helped. If it didn't help, then there would be no use in cutting up your current grill.

He also commented about the future possibility of selling Boss 302S grills but didn't say it was going to happen for sure.

I'm going to try some grill modifications... hopefully this weekend... and then test them out at High Plains Raceway on the 20th-21st during NASA Time Trails. If it all works, maybe Mark can make them available.

 

[brucegre]

I've had my Boss for about 6 weeks, and I have unlimited access to a race track so I get lots of time to test it. The cooling problem is very real, and a real fun killer. If I run at about 3/4 throttle and shift at 6500, the car will run forever. If I go full throttle, the car doesn't really make any more power and it overheats in a couple of laps. If I go full throttle and redline, it really doesn't pull well to 7500 and it overheats very quickly. It has thrown a lot of misfire codes and gone into limp mode a number of times. It wasn't that hot yesterday, low 80's and I still had the problem.

I'm meeting with some race engineers tomorrow to talk about it, I have a Roush grill ready to install, and if needed I'll install the rad and oil cooler, but with all the testing and hoopla Ford did, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. I traded in a 2011 5.0 on this car, the new car's track manners are SO much better, Ford really got it right, but I've been disappointed in the engine so far because I never had a problem with the Coyote and it pulled like a freight train. If I find a good solution I'll post it.

 

[ChuckP]

I took my Boss to Summit Point for its first day on the track yesterday. Pegged temp gauge several times and while it was a pretty warm day (about 89) I've run other cars on the track (BMW, Porsche, Subaru WRX, Corvette) in much hotter weather with no overheating problems. It's a real bummer since the car is a blast to drive until it heats up. I learned by short shifting I could run more laps before I had to let it cool down (by driving one easy lap). Ford grossly screwed up on this and I'm not happy about it since the Boss 302 is supposed to be a track capable car. What good is a "Trackey' (whenever that gets here) if it's only good for 3 laps?

I'm planning to install a Roush grill and put my unmolested factory grill in storage. If that does not do it I may have to look into a 302S radiator or just sell the car and go back to a car that won't overheat on the track! I really love my Boss 302 but this overheating thing is inexcuseable (assuming my Chinese transmission holds up)! What I have now is a fun weekend cruiser that gets lot of attention and compliments and is next to useless on a racetrack (at least in the summer).

I'll be posting a report of (with pics) of all the prep work I did on the car for my first track event. I had NO problems (brakes, tranny, etc.) other than overheating. Everything else was great and I surprised a couple of M3 and Cayman S drivers!