PSA: MT82 Fluid For Track Use

[JDee]

I have a stock motor except for Ford power pack 2 thing which produced exactly zero decrease in lap times and made the driveability of the car worse, the no lift shift thing is terrible on a road course. Despite the 7250 red line with that PP2 tune I use a hard limit of 6500 rpm for shifting in the interest of trying to maximize motor/trans life and respecting that I'm not even running for a trophy. I try to get the speed in the corners and not worry about the straights. That didn't get me very far. I've been doing this stuff since 1972, mostly with BW T-10s, and this is the first car I've ever had a clutch/trans problem with.

At any rate, I have all the parts for a trans cooler in a Summit shopping cart and an appointment to get the trans rebuilt in January, hopefully those two things will add more life to the next iteration of this MT82.

Next question, does a person need special tools to assemble aeroquip style hose ends?

 

[docs302]

Next question, does a person need special tools to assemble aeroquip style hose ends?

The only "specialized" tool I had for this was the aluminum wrenches to protect the fittings. Other than that a vice, tape, and cutting tool. I have used a fine toothed hacksaw as well as a dedicated braided hose cutter. Both worked well. I know there are more dedicated tools for this but that's what I had in my garage and it works fine.

 

[Grant 302]

Oh and I have never run synchromesh fluid in mine. I have one of the early cars produced before they changed the spec on the fluid to the dual clutch automatic stuff to improve cold shifting. I thought the new spec was too light and never followed it. I changed the original fluid out for RedLine MTL 75/80 years ago and it has served me well. It met the original spec, but not the revised spec, so RedLine quit recommending it for the MT82.

Maybe, just maybe, this is what you and I are doing ‘right’.

I’ve never put any of the additives/firiction modifiers from the subsequent Ford or aftermarket recommendations.

Like you stated in one of your other posts, the only issue I had with my 11GT was the 2nd gear crunch when cold on the original fill. Haven’t seen that issue since.

I’m not sure what was originally in my 12 Boss, but it never had the 2nd gear problem, and only has the clutch related problems when hot.

 

[EF1]

I wouild agree that any of my countless mt82s were fine and never had any problems shifting below 7000rpm, Even with the stock clutch. Problems start when you go over 7000 rpm and have more power. I think by the time you get to 430 rwhp the stock tranny is very much in danger.

That may explain some of why mine has been good. I have a GT not a Boss so it doesn't rev as high. I have the redline set at 7200, but it starts falling off above 6800, so usually I shift just under 7000.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Hi JDee:

This caught my attention when you said: “the no lift shift thing is terrible on a road course.”

Can you elaborate on the “No lift thing”? I read it as a no lift thing when shifting an MT82? Not sure so thought I would ask.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

 

[JDee]

The tunes FP did for the Ford power pack 1, 2 and 3 kits include a no lift shift feature. So the idea is you can keep your right foot to the floor, pump the clutch to shift and the tune manages the revs during the shift. This might be great for draggers, but on a road course it causes problems, at least it sure does for me.

First, we don't have the grip that draggers do with their traction compounds, and when I tried this feature I would get enough wheelspin to snap the car way out of shape. This even happened on 4-5 shifts at 6500 rpm so it was well over 100 MPH. Scary as shiznit. You're basically side stepping the clutch with the engine at maximum HP and it is hard on everything, it is extremely violent how the power comes back on. Given how fragile the 5th gear syncro is, this seems like a really bad idea.

Secondly, if you shift normally (ie breathe the throttle briefly) you will get a stutter almost 100% of the time as the software tries to manage the revs, even though it's not necessary to do that. That high rpm stutter, as I understand it, is tough on oil pump gears and it's annoying as hell. Any pressure on the clutch pedal causes the no lift shift thing to go active and it tries to manage the revs. It's clear that this no lift shift stuff was put in there for stop light grand prix adherents or drag racers. I talked to FPP about it and they said they had no plans to make it optional so it can't be disabled.

It is the worst piece of kit I've ever put on a car, did nothing for lap times at all and it's coming out including the GT350 TB, reverting to the stock Coyote throttle body and getting a tune elsewhere. So I will end up with the world's most expensive aftermarket air intake and nothing else for almost $1500 bucks. Except maybe an engine and drivetrain that might survive better and a car that does slightly faster lap times stock.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Hi JDee:

This caught my attention when you said: “the no lift shift thing is terrible on a road course.”

Can you elaborate on the “No lift thing”? I read it as a no lift thing when shifting an MT82? Not sure so thought I would ask.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Its basically "clutch kicking". A great way to kick out the back end as JDee said, though most importantly the instantaneous loading to the driveline when you let the clutch back out is astronomical. I spent a lot of time in the past drifting, and have a number of friends who are now in the national series. Clutch kicking is an important technique in drifting and there are many instances of people destroying transmissions, clutches, and axles rated for say 1000hp behind an engine only pushing 500hp.

 

[blacksheep-1]

why do you need a tune to powershift? is it because the ECM sees the clutch in and dials down the RPM?

we don' need no tune...

skip to the 40 mark

9,000 RPM STICK SHIFT NOVA IN CAR VIDEO - YouTube

 

[JDee]

why do you need a tune to powershift? is it because the ECM sees the clutch in and dials down the RPM?

Yup, sort of. Doesn't dial it down, just holds it, more or less....stutters and bangs away with any pressure at all on the clutch. I sure didn't expect this behaviour when I bought the damn PP2 thing and had I known it would screw up shifting I would never have bought it. It basically forces you pretty much to powershift dragger style to avoid the stutter which is insanity on a road course car.

So I wanted to go back to the stock tune and get rid of the GT350 TB that came with the kit and go back to the Coyote TB since the car is actually slower now than it was stock, probably due to driveability issues but it is also a couple MPH slower in terminal top speed up the back straight. But I found that Ford's software did not save a copy of the stock tune to my laptop. This despite the instructions that said it would do that if I needed to revert. There was a tune there, but it turns out it's a copy of the damn PP2 software and won't work with the stock throttle body. So now I don't even have the stock tune to revert to, going to have to take it to a local Mustang shop in spring to have that tune issue fixed. The joys.
Sorry for hijack of thread.

 

[carver]

Yup, sort of. Doesn't dial it down, just holds it, more or less....stutters and bangs away with any pressure at all on the clutch. I sure didn't expect this behaviour when I bought the damn PP2 thing and had I known it would screw up shifting I would never have bought it. It basically forces you pretty much to powershift dragger style to avoid the stutter which is insanity on a road course car.

So I wanted to go back to the stock tune and get rid of the GT350 TB that came with the kit and go back to the Coyote TB since the car is actually slower now than it was stock, probably due to driveability issues but it is also a couple MPH slower in terminal top speed up the back straight. But I found that Ford's software did not save a copy of the stock tune to my laptop. This despite the instructions that said it would do that if I needed to revert. There was a tune there, but it turns out it's a copy of the damn PP2 software and won't work with the stock throttle body. So now I don't even have the stock tune to revert to, going to have to take it to a local Mustang shop in spring to have that tune issue fixed. The joys.
Sorry for hijack of thread.

Is there some way to mechanically disable this feature if it's at the clutch pedal ? ie. pull a fuse or unplug a connector. Could it be that simple.....not likely . .

 

[JAJ]

Is there some way to mechanically disable this feature if it's at the clutch pedal ? ie. pull a fuse or unplug a connector. Could it be that simple.....not likely . .

Movement at the top of the clutch pedal is detected by a switch that's buried deep up inside the dashboard behind the headlight switch whose original purpose is to cancel cruise control when you shift gears. If you don't care about that (perhaps you're one of the rare people who don't use cruise control on the race track) then you could just disconnect the switch and the ECU would be unaware that the clutch is depressed. Might cause a code - can't be sure unless someone tries it. There's a second switch that detects the clutch on the floor - it's the one that enables the engine start cycle, so leave that one connected.

If someone's going to try this, there might be a glitch - the switch is held in the activated position by the clutch pedal, so if you disconnect it, the ECU might think the clutch is permanently depressed. Only way to know is to try.

 

[TymeSlayer]

Who doesn't use cruise control on the track?

 

[Mad Hatter]

Dam.... thats what I have been doing wrong. But the gas mileage is better with cruise control (Not!)

 

[xr7]

Who doesn't use cruise control on the track?

That's what I get for sitting in the back of the classroom.

 

[blacksheep-1]

JDee, how far away are you from Phoenixville, PA?

 

[JDee]

JDee, how far away are you from Phoenixville, PA?

440 miles one way, and an international border. It's the border that's the biggest problem. All kinds of issues trying to go south and very stiff isolation requirements on return. Just not doable ATM. Everything is tough to do these days.

 

[blacksheep-1]

440 miles one way, and an international border. It's the border that's the biggest problem. All kinds of issues trying to go south and very stiff isolation requirements on return. Just not doable ATM. Everything is tough to do these days.

Yeah, one of our drivers was Canadian, another crewman was from New York, we had to get creative in order to "comply".

 

[Nick20GTPP]

I am running AMSOIL DCT in my MT82, shifts smooth and no issues. Only 2 track days on the car thus far.... Anyone else running this fluid?

 

[bnight]

Vorshlag did run Motul DCTF 75/90 in the red car and never mentioned ever temp issues with the transmission. After my rebuild of the trans this season (oil leak as well as annoying clicking noise) I also put Motul DCTF in mine. I plan to start change the trans oil every time I change my diff fluid so once every season. Hope this is going to save the trans hope Ford Performance create a Tremac 6160 kit for the regular GT's and put in catalog in mean time.

 

[steveespo]

I'm late to this thread but would like to add my input. I have run 5 different MT-82 transmissions in 3 different cars on track since September 2010 and have not broken any of them. (the extra transmissions were due to 1) a fire 2) a swap from MT82D4 to a Gen 2 MT82 for gearing reasons.) I have run Ford QDC XT-11, Motul DCT and BG Synchro Shift II. The BG has given me the best feel, and life (you can feel things get a little nibbly when its time to change) so I use it exclusively. It has been said before, a good clutch (Exedy Hyper Single) and MGW shifter are really important to proper shifting and clutch release at high rpm, which prolongs longevity of the transmissions.