PSA: MT82 Fluid For Track Use

[docs302]

a good clutch (Exedy Hyper Single) and MGW shifter are really important to proper shifting and clutch release at high rpm, which prolongs longevity of the transmissions.

100% the best advice

 

[JDee]

I just got my trans rebuilt with the Syncrotech kit, rebuild cost $1800Cdn, that included new 3rd and 5th gears and the Syncrotech kit. I've done a ton of reading on lube for this trans. I had been running the BG Synchro Shift II and my trans rebuilder said it appears to be too thick to him. He thinks that extra fluid thickness didn't do the syncros any good as it makes it harder for them to engage and probably created more heat in doing that. BG also doesn't show any compliance with the Ford standards that I could find. Certainly it's clear that the BG fluid is not the magic bullet for track use, surely not a substitute for proper cooling, though no doubt it did improve shifting when the car was street driven. He feels a thinner fluid is better as long as you can manage the heat and keep that down. That's critical.

In addition to putting in my trans cooler I'm going to try the Motul DCT and see how that goes. It is one of the few fluids that says it complies with Ford's revised standard for the MT-82 which is now WSS-M2C200-D2. The fluid Ford currently specs for my MT-82 is their DCT fluid so I'm hoping this helps. Amsoil's DCT fluid also complies with that spec, but I have never used Amsoil products and find their way of doing business a tad off.

If I can get temps closer to 200-220ish degrees I think it will make a difference in the trans life. I put a 30 row cooler on it so hopefully it brings temps down a lot and if that's not enough I'll look into going bigger or adding a 2nd cooler inline. I put in a heat gauge, which is a Derale and despite being assured by them their sender would fit into the -8AN adapter they make for it, it doesn't, so that required some ugly plumbing as well. But the heat gauge is all important and had to be done.

If this trans barfs early then it's Tremec time, hopefully by then covid is a thing of the past and getting a Tremec kit from stateside will be easier.

 

[blacksheep-1]

The only "specialized" tool I had for this was the aluminum wrenches to protect the fittings. Other than that a vice, tape, and cutting tool. I have used a fine toothed hacksaw as well as a dedicated braided hose cutter. Both worked well. I know there are more dedicated tools for this but that's what I had in my garage and it works fine.

I use a death wheel with an extremely thin carbon disc to cut them, but definitely wear eye protection!!

 

[JAJ]

I just got my trans rebuilt with the Syncrotech kit, rebuild cost $1800Cdn, that included new 3rd and 5th gears and the Syncrotech kit. I've done a ton of reading on lube for this trans. I had been running the BG Synchro Shift II and my trans rebuilder said it appears to be too thick to him. He thinks that extra fluid thickness didn't do the syncros any good as it makes it harder for them to engage and probably created more heat in doing that. BG also doesn't show any compliance with the Ford standards that I could find. Certainly it's clear that the BG fluid is not the magic bullet for track use, surely not a substitute for proper cooling, though no doubt it did improve shifting when the car was street driven. He feels a thinner fluid is better as long as you can manage the heat and keep that down. That's critical.

In addition to putting in my trans cooler I'm going to try the Motul DCT and see how that goes. It is one of the few fluids that says it complies with Ford's revised standard for the MT-82 which is now WSS-M2C200-D2. The fluid Ford currently specs for my MT-82 is their DCT fluid so I'm hoping this helps. Amsoil's DCT fluid also complies with that spec, but I have never used Amsoil products and find their way of doing business a tad off.

If I can get temps closer to 200-220ish degrees I think it will make a difference in the trans life. I put a 30 row cooler on it so hopefully it brings temps down a lot and if that's not enough I'll look into going bigger or adding a 2nd cooler inline. I put in a heat gauge, which is a Derale and despite being assured by them their sender would fit into the -8AN adapter they make for it, it doesn't, so that required some ugly plumbing as well. But the heat gauge is all important and had to be done.

If this trans barfs early then it's Tremec time, hopefully by then covid is a thing of the past and getting a Tremec kit from stateside will be easier.

Why the reticence to just use the Motorcraft DCT fluid? It's a fully formulated (by Castrol Europe) fluid with a pretty robust package:

"Description: Castrol Syntrans FE 75W is a full synthetic transmission fluid recommended for most passenger car conventional manual and "dry clutch" transmissions where API GL 4 lubricants are required. It is approved for use where Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 is specified. Ford Focus, C-Max, Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, Transit. Volvo C30, S40, V50, S60, V70, C70, XC60, XC70"

 

[Impact302]

Motul DCTF on my HPDE session Saturday seemed to be better than the 2 year and 20k mile old Amsoil Cocktail I used previously.

 

[steveespo]

BG SynchroShift II is the best. I have used every possible fluid out there including the motul. If you want Motul I have 2 liter bottles brand new for $15 liter shipped.
Steve

 

[JDee]

Why the reticence to just use the Motorcraft DCT fluid? It's a fully formulated (by Castrol Europe) fluid with a pretty robust package:

"Description: Castrol Syntrans FE 75W is a full synthetic transmission fluid recommended for most passenger car conventional manual and "dry clutch" transmissions where API GL 4 lubricants are required. It is approved for use where Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 is specified. Ford Focus, C-Max, Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, Transit. Volvo C30, S40, V50, S60, V70, C70, XC60, XC70"

Thanks for the info. So the Motorcraft DCT is actually Castrol Syntrans FE75W? I did not know that.
I don't want to get into a pissing match, I have benefitted from your excellent advice in past, but here's what the pre-amble in the Safety Data Sheet says for the Castrol product:

GHS product identifier Castrol Syntrans FE 75W
Product code 467283-DE41
SDS # 467283

Manufacturer
BP Lubricants USA Inc.
1500 Valley Road
Wayne, NJ 07470
Telephone: (973) 633-2200

Supplier
Wakefield Canada Inc.
3620 Lakeshore Blvd West
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M8W 1P2
Phone Number - 416-252-5511

Link to pdf:

https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/27E9547590C013B08025832A005293A1/$File/11397037.pdf

That actually seems to say it's made by BP Lubricants in New Jersey and shipped to Wakefield who is the Canadian Castrol distributor. See what I mean? Who knows who is making this year's stock and where it was made and is it better or worse than last year's stuff?

Another reason is I believe the OEM stuff is likely made for the average motorist, not people who do what we do. By contrast, Motul is a well known company that's had a long standing in motorsports with a good reputation. I just have more confidence in their product than the OEM product that I have no idea who made and I know is primarily intended for driving 60 mph on freeways.

People do nothing but complain about the factory fill in the MT82, I didn't find it stellar and that was why I switched to the BG stuff. The BG improved shifting, but obviously didn't stand up well in a track setting without cooling. Maybe it would with some cooling and for sure I will try it again with the cooler if I don't like the Motul. But there was a pile of worn out stuff in there, all the syncros were bad, 3rd and 5th gears were really bad with tooth damage and pitting. I am kind of leery of BG now given that it doesn't list any compliance with any manufacturer standard, at least not that I could find.

I didn't just land on Motul on a whim, I did a pile of digging to see who makes what and what might work in this rather fragile transmission. And that's the biggest issue, the MT82 is really not a great track car trans and if it fails again with cooling then replacing it with a Tremec is where this will go.

I hate oil threads.....but I truly do appreciate the input and lessons learned advice from the track rats in this forum.

 

[JAJ]

Thanks for the info. So the Motorcraft DCT is actually Castrol Syntrans FE75W? I did not know that.
I don't want to get into a pissing match, I have benefitted from your excellent advice in past, but here's what the pre-amble in the Safety Data Sheet says for the Castrol product:

GHS product identifier Castrol Syntrans FE 75W
Product code 467283-DE41
SDS # 467283

Manufacturer
BP Lubricants USA Inc.
1500 Valley Road
Wayne, NJ 07470
Telephone: (973) 633-2200

Supplier
Wakefield Canada Inc.
3620 Lakeshore Blvd West
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M8W 1P2
Phone Number - 416-252-5511

Link to pdf:

https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/27E9547590C013B08025832A005293A1/$File/11397037.pdf

That actually seems to say it's made by BP Lubricants in New Jersey and shipped to Wakefield who is the Canadian Castrol distributor. See what I mean? Who knows who is making this year's stock and where it was made and is it better or worse than last year's stuff?

Another reason is I believe the OEM stuff is likely made for the average motorist, not people who do what we do. By contrast, Motul is a well known company that's had a long standing in motorsports with a good reputation. I just have more confidence in their product than the OEM product that I have no idea who made and I know is primarily intended for driving 60 mph on freeways.

People do nothing but complain about the factory fill in the MT82, I didn't find it stellar and that was why I switched to the BG stuff. The BG improved shifting, but obviously didn't stand up well in a track setting without cooling. Maybe it would with some cooling and for sure I will try it again with the cooler if I don't like the Motul. But there was a pile of worn out stuff in there, all the syncros were bad, 3rd and 5th gears were really bad with tooth damage and pitting. I am kind of leery of BG now given that it doesn't list any compliance with any manufacturer standard, at least not that I could find.

I didn't just land on Motul on a whim, I did a pile of digging to see who makes what and what might work in this rather fragile transmission. And that's the biggest issue, the MT82 is really not a great track car trans and if it fails again with cooling then replacing it with a Tremec is where this will go.

I hate oil threads.....but I truly do appreciate the input and lessons learned advice from the track rats in this forum.

I didn't have time this morning to explain it more fully, but the story goes like this: back in 2011 when I had an early production Mustang GT with the Brembo brake package, I wasn't happy with the shifting. I'd come from a string of BMW's and they didn't shift well either, particularly when cold, and I was disappointed that the Ford with the new modern Getrag wasn't any better than a BMW with an old relic Getrag. But, my MT82 came with 75w90 in it. So, in true explorer fashion, I went on a hunt. First, for a gear oil that worked better than the 75w90, and also for information about the "water-thin" DCT fluid that Ford was putting in later production transmissions. After A LOT of digging, I found an article from British Castrol about the joint BP Castro/Euro Ford development effort for the dry-clutch DCT fluid that met the WSS-M2C200-D2 spec for the Euro Fords with DCT's listed in the Syntrans spec sheet. It rolled out of the lab, fully qualified to the spec, somewhere around 2005 to 2008 or so. In comparison to all the aftermarket gear oils that were designed to replace (mostly) GM's 1980's and 1990's vintage gear oils, this was a modern bespoke product formulated for synchromesh transmissions being shifted by a machine. Now, that Castrol datasheet in the post above is for the Castrol version of the oil, but it's entirely possible that Ford owns the formulation and has it blended for Motorcraft by the lowest bidder. Or maybe Castrol makes it all. There's no way to know. I was still hanging around on Bitog at the time, and Castrol gear oils had an excellent reputation there, so I figured that a modern formulation done by a very competent forumulator couldn't be all bad.

Which takes me to the testing I did. I went through probably $500 or $600 worth of gear oil looking for something that would fix the crap shifting. BG, GM, Pennz, Redline, Motul, Pentosin all went in, didn't shift very well and came out again. Then, almost as an afterthought, I tried the Motorcraft DCT fluid with the XL18 additive that was recommended at the time. Night and day. Better and smoother shifting, cooler running, it was a revelation. So that's what I ran in the MT82 for the rest of the time I owned it.

These days, in my GT350, and after a similar trial of hundreds of dollars worth of gear oils and ATF's, I'm running Motorcraft DCT and XL18. Shifting is excellent, runs cool, couldn't be happier with it.

There's a whole industry out there - led by Amsoil's crack team of reseller/marketers - that want you to believe that the OEM fluids are garbage and won't hold up in hard use. My experience so far with Motorcraft engine oil and gear oils - trans and diff - is that they're as good as the best and better than the rest.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Related question: how many track days/hours are people doing for service interval on trans fluid?

 

[xr7]

I thought the XL18 additive was no longer needed when running the DCT trans fluid.

 

[steveespo]

Related question: how many track days/hours are people doing for service interval on trans fluid?

12 Track hours for me.

 

[JDee]

I thought the XL18 additive was no longer needed when running the DCT trans fluid.

That's the last I heard too. I read that it's just napthalene. Moth balls. Go figure.

I think the bottom line here is the MT82 is not a great trans and everyone, including Ford has been searching for the holy grail of trans fluids to fix the warts that are built into it. It's possible that I'm going to find it is just not strong enough for track work and the only real fix is a Tremec swap.

 

[stevbd]

So I hesitate to gloat or jinx myself, but just as a reference point I've got 135,000 miles and a couple dozen track days on my 2011 GT, the drivetrain is totally oem and it's never been opened. I tend to run in the intermediate to advance pace on track, so quick-ish but definitely not race car pounding. Original clutch, trans fluid, shifter, everything. And it's doing great. The only kind of glitchy thing with my trans is it doesn't like to go 1-2 on a really cold winter morning. So I shift 1-3 until the fluid warms up. Otherwise it's been just fine.

I know there are a lot of inconsistencies in the MT82, but as with so much of this car it seems life is a lot easier if you are willing to shift below 7000 rpm and do the basics, including being careful to do a really good heel-toe or otherwise rev match the high rpm downshifts.

 

[BluPil]

maybe there will be an option from Ford at some point...

Why Ford Chose A Tremec Manual Transmission For The 2021 Mach 1

Instead of sticking an MT82 in the 2021 Mach 1, Ford went with the beloved Tremec TR-3160 six-speed manual from the Shelby GT350, and that's a big deal.

fordauthority.com

 

[JAJ]

I thought the XL18 additive was no longer needed when running the DCT trans fluid.

Ford changed the transmission (I don't know what they changed or when) to make XL18 unnecessary. However, it still works as originally intended - it improves synchro engagement. I've run with it and without it and with it is better.

 

[Grant 302]

Otherwise it's been just fine.

Yeah, but I’ve found nobody here wants the hear that.

I mean what dude wants to tell his wife that he killed another tranny?

If it were really fragile inside the box, I would have broken one of mine in either the ‘11 GT or the ‘12 Boss. They both handle power shifting just fine. If the internals were as bad as their reputation at least one of mine would have exploded by now.

I also suspect lack of heel toe in general for many issues and internal failures.

I only had the 2nd gear crunch in the GT in the first winter or two. And that was only before warm up.

Boss clutch and the remote shifter are the biggest issues. And even the shifters are different year to year without getting into the details.

If one relies heavily on the synchros to make the shift, then consider them and the whole tranny as consumable or maintenance items.

 

[AdmirC]

It seems that the Moco has taken out the little note about XL-18 in the fluid chart so I guess it's confirmed that they don't recommend it anymore. Used to say see note 6 or something and said for a refill use XL-18 which is no longer there and I assume they no longer sell it so supply might go dry. No dealers around me stock it anymore.

 

[stevbd]

If one relies heavily on the synchros to make the shift, then consider them and the whole tranny as consumable or maintenance items.

Thinking about this a bit more, I think I was wrong to suggest that heel-toe or rev matching somehow makes the gear change easier on the trans. Yes it is smoother and easier on the clutch. But unless you are double clutching the wear and tear on the synchros will be the same, no?

I think the reality is I'm just doing my downshifts at lower rpm. Sorry to get off the subject, back to finding the best fluids!

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

12 Track hours for me.

Thanks Steve.

 

[JAJ]

...If one relies heavily on the synchros to make the shift, then consider them and the whole tranny as consumable or maintenance items.

Unless you "double clutch" on every shift, you're always relying on the synchro's to match the gear speeds. Heel-and-toe is about protecting the clutch and smooth shifting and that's always better, but rev-matching inside the gearbox is still done by synchro's.

Double clutching (technique) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org