Track Time Videos

[PeteInCT]

Re: Track Time

If the '13's run hot with that grille and their hood then the car has a much bigger issue. I highly doubt that have the same tendencies as the '12's. It would mean the new grille and hood approach was just for show. My assumption is that the '13's do not come with the 302S oil cooler. If they do then I may take that last statement back ;D

 

[cloud9]

Re: Track Time

I'm going to take my dremel to the 302S grill and remove bars and replace with wire with hopes of maintaining the look and increasing the airflow.

Let me know how that works. I'm going to be in the same boat I assume.

Elevation is the biggest enemy of cooling on this car it appears.

 

[emcrace]

Re: Track Time

For the guys getting hot on track days. Try this, under the nose at the rear of the tray labeled remove for oil service instal an upside down wicker. as wide as possible and around an inch or better high. Many race cars that are low and a butt load of street cars do this to lower under hood pressure, it works. Bendy plastic is best soft alluminum OK.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Re: Track Time

It may be cheap insurance if you're using it with the factory anti-freeze. For best results, you're supposed to run just Water Wetter and distilled water if you just look at their own testing. The cooling gain from running with anti-freeze is nominal. For me, I prefer the insurance of corrosion protection of the factory coolant versus trusting Water Wetter alone to provide it. Many argue you shouldn't run A/F in a track car, but again it's a measure of what kind of insurance you're protecting against. For those of us up in the North, we have to have at least some anti-freeze in until May and back in by October to be safe.

Exactly, I was going to reply it is not snake oil used correctly. I asked Dean and his crew and some other teams, they told me to run distilled water and the water wetter for the corrosion protection. This is currently what I am running.

As far as the grille goes, so far I have not had to pull mine, been staying in the 230's with my simple mods. If anything I had an increase in temps 8-10 this last weekend with the S rad in. However it was the hottest day I have run in a while. Suppose to be 94 tomorrow so I will know better.

 

[cloud9]

Re: Track Time

I have yet to hear of anyone overheating at sea level, even bone stock.

 

[ChuckP]

Re: Track Time

I have yet to hear of anyone overheating at sea level, even bone stock.

Summit Point varies from about 250 to 600 feet above sea level. My Boss overheated there last July in 95 degree weather. I've no problems there other times when temps were 85 or less.

 

[cloud9]

Re: Track Time

I have yet to hear of anyone overheating at sea level, even bone stock.

Summit Point varies from about 250 to 600 feet above sea level. My Boss overheated there last July in 95 degree weather. I've no problems there other times when temps were 85 or less.

That's interesting. Seems 95+ gets pretty dicey. I was in 98-100 degree temps yesterday and even with the grille out was pushing 255 ECT and the dummy gauge was pegged and the temp light on, but it did NOT go into limp mode. Oil was at 240*. Would be interesting to know exactly what parameter triggers limp mode and at what value the cap goes "pop".

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: Track Time

Something seems really wrong (not necessarily with your car specifically). You have the 302S radiator and oil cooler, the tiger hood AND had no grille. Still you ran too hot in only 95 degree temps. There has to be something else that Ford is not telling us, how the heck does the 302S/R run in any real races in hot weather?

 

[06mach1]

Re: Track Time

Gary, where are you getting your coolant temp reading from? The PCM? Or did you install an actual gauge with a sending unit in the block? If you are getting your reading from the PCM, I wonder if coolant temp is actually less. I recently installed an electric gauge with the sending unit in the side of the block. I have not run it on the track yet as I just installed it yesterday, but running around the house it runs around 180 to 190 with air temps around 80. Less than what I thought it would have been as I beleive the thermostat is a 195 degree. My place is 1800 feet above sea level. I have seen coolant sensors read incorrectly also, just not on a Ford product though.

 

[cloud9]

Re: Track Time

Gary, where are you getting your coolant temp reading from? The PCM? Or did you install an actual gauge with a sending unit in the block? If you are getting your reading from the PCM, I wonder if coolant temp is actually less. I recently installed an electric gauge with the sending unit in the side of the block. I have not run it on the track yet as I just installed it yesterday, but running around the house it runs around 180 to 190 with air temps around 80. Less than what I thought it would have been as I beleive the thermostat is a 195 degree. My place is 1800 feet above sea level. I have seen coolant sensors read incorrectly also, just not on a Ford product though.

I'm getting it from OBDII. The thought is it might actually be measuring CHT. In either case, I was pegging the dummy temp gauge and lit the red temp warning light so it was definitely running hot. The 302S/R cars don't have A/C and I still think that condenser is blocking a ton of airflow. It seems to jive with the oil temps staying at 240 (oil cooler in front of condenser) while ECT is running higher. My buddies in their Vettes regularly see oil over 280. I will have to consider an a/c delete. The MMP cars pulled their condensers. I wonder if you can just cap the condenser and remove it or if you have to pull the compressor and install a pulley delete. Did anyone ask them specifically what they did?

 

[SMACK78]

Re: Track Time

Ironically, Jack Jr and Billy Johnson were fighting overheating issues at Thunderbolt in New Jersey last race. Never heard why exactly but but ambient temps were in the 70s. Also didnt hear that the second Rousch car (Reba Mcentires pay ride) was having any trouble ???

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Re: Track Time

I am getting closer to the 250 again I was running 220 or so after the grille, foam and weatherstrip mods. That was over the FL winter (60-85), last week at the first hot day (93-94) and a 302S radiator installed with water, no coolant, I was at 230. Now today (95) after installing the Tiger Hood I was running 239, go figure ???

I saw temp at 245 last summer with no mods.

The S and R have boxed in the airflow from the grille to the radiator completely. They even cover the hole where the hood latch pops through. Dean told me the 13 design is cooling better on the R.

 

[cloud9]

Re: Track Time

I'll bet you're driving faster this year Staying in the throttle longer before braking, back on the throttle sooner by any chance?

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: Track Time

[I'm getting it from OBDII. The thought is it might actually be measuring CHT. In either case, I was.....

On the Aeroforce the CHT is "Head Temp 2". I typicall run 12 to 15 degrees hotter even in normal street driving on that reading that what the Aeroforce says for ECT ("Coolant" value).

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: Track Time

I am getting closer to the 250 again I was running 220 or so after the grille, foam and weatherstrip mods. That was over the FL winter (60-85), last week at the first hot day (93-94) and a 302S radiator installed with water, no coolant, I was at 230. Now today (95) after installing the Tiger Hood I was running 239, go figure ???

I saw temp at 245 last summer with no mods.

The S and R have boxed in the airflow from the grille to the radiator completely. They even cover the hole where the hood latch pops through. Dean told me the 13 design is cooling better on the R.

Does anyone have a pic of exactly how they do this on the 302R ? Are there plastic baffles we could purchase/install fron FRPP ?

 

[VoodooBoss]

Re: Track Time

I am getting closer to the 250 again I was running 220 or so after the grille, foam and weatherstrip mods. That was over the FL winter (60-85), last week at the first hot day (93-94) and a 302S radiator installed with water, no coolant, I was at 230. Now today (95) after installing the Tiger Hood I was running 239, go figure ???

I saw temp at 245 last summer with no mods.

The S and R have boxed in the airflow from the grille to the radiator completely. They even cover the hole where the hood latch pops through. Dean told me the 13 design is cooling better on the R.

Does anyone have a pic of exactly how they do this on the 302R ? Are there plastic baffles we could purchase/install fron FRPP ?

Aluminum is your friend. I have not seen the covers for sale but you might be able to buy them from one of the race teams. Here's the best photo I have and Andy might have a better one.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Re: Track Time

Does anyone have a pic of exactly how they do this on the 302R ? Are there plastic baffles we could purchase/install fron FRPP ?

I wish I took better pictures of the 52 car when they had it apart. The guys were working on this since the car took a few shots to the nose at HMS and they were worried about the effect on cooling since some of the work they did was damaged. Anyway it was just fabricated to close off any way for air to escape between the grille and radiator. I have been thinking about ways to do this to mine when I get the time. Right now I am worried that I changed airflow with the skid plate I built between the splitter and condenser/radiator. It is still closed off pretty well but any little opening will allow precious air to by-pass the radiator.

I'll bet you're driving faster this year Staying in the throttle longer before braking, back on the throttle sooner by any chance?

I am sure that is the case but I was still surprised to see the difference between this weekend and last. One big difference is the wide turn at PB that give the engine a chance to cool better. Still I run harder at PB then any other track since I know it better. I did speak with Kenny Brown about the hood and asked about cooling. He said it helps with cooling but when I asked if they have any test numbers he did not. I do not doubt there is some degree of cooling but I still stick to my theory that it is minimal. The engine heats up under full throttle and cools down quickly. It is going to take time for the internal temps to reach the outside of the engine to get the chance to be vented out of the hood.

I think it is all about airflow through the radiator as many people running without grilles have found out. The condenser does not help being there and if it was not I would guess we would not even be discussing this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsPSI4GFAg[/youtube]

 

[CaliMR]

Re: Track Time

Does anyone have a pic of exactly how they do this on the 302R ? Are there plastic baffles we could purchase/install fron FRPP ?

Anyway it was just fabricated to close off any way for air to escape between the grille and radiator. I have been thinking about ways to do this to mine when I get the time. Right now I am worried that I changed airflow with the skid plate I built between the splitter and condenser/radiator. It is still closed off pretty well but any little opening will allow precious air to by-pass the radiator.

"slam plates" were popular in the Evo scene, though something far more enclosed would probably be needed here. I was a little surprised I could not find anything similar for Mustangs when I looked for them. My oil temps used to hit 265+ measured at the drain plug regularly but no coking of the oil and I had the motor scoped and inspected pretty thoroughly before selling it and it was perfect inside. But I did change the oil every track day (never went long enough between events to do it based on miles).

The hood would provide the most benefit if the backpressure behind the radiator is what is hurting flow, if it is just for venting radiant head from the motor then the benefit would be minimal I think. The turbulence from the grill theory people mentioned recently is interesting, have you seen significant changes in temp between the 302S grill and no grill?

I believe the next step is to wrap everything under your hood with gold heat reflection foil ;D

 

[Justin]

Re: Track Time

seeing how the 2013 GT500 has no grill at all I think is a great tell tale as to how restrictive the grill is on air flow

 

[VoodooBoss]

Re: Track Time

I did speak with Kenny Brown about the hood and asked about cooling. He said it helps with cooling but when I asked if they have any test numbers he did not. I do not doubt there is some degree of cooling but I still stick to my theory that it is minimal. The engine heats up under full throttle and cools down quickly. It is going to take time for the internal temps to reach the outside of the engine to get the chance to be vented out of the hood.

I think it is all about airflow through the radiator as many people running without grilles have found out. The condenser does not help being there and if it was not I would guess we would not even be discussing this.

This has been my opinion all along and I haven't seen anything to change it.